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Old 09-26-2012, 05:50 PM   #41
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Default Re: Creating Military Culture From Scratch

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
It's less likely there will be a separate code of law and justice system. The service might have to obey the civil law code, both personally for the troops and collectively abiding by stuff like workplace safety, and civil rights.
That would only work if the civilian and military cultures are both very militarized. Otherwise it'll fail every time, because the necessities of military life and military organization are too different from civilian life for a single law code to cover both. (Though you might see a situation where the same law code theoretically applied to both while in fact the unwritten rules that actually apply are very different.)

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Orders are probably at least a little more open to discussion - civil law isn't likely to allow anything more serious than firing you for disobeying one, or publically questioning your superiors stupidity, executing you isn't an option.
Yeah, but once the fighting stars all this would have to be thrown out unless you don't mind losing. Military organiations cannot operate that way in wartime.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:58 PM   #42
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Default Re: Creating Military Culture From Scratch

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That would only work if the civilian and military cultures are both very militarized. Otherwise it'll fail every time, because the necessities of military life and military organization are too different from civilian life for a single law code to cover both. (Though you might see a situation where the same law code theoretically applied to both while in fact the unwritten rules that actually apply are very different.)

...
The purpose of a military is to kill, something you usually want very little of in civilian life.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:25 PM   #43
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Default Re: Creating Military Culture From Scratch

Anyone you continue to serve with becomes difficult to endanger (unless they are a real #(*@&, which presents its own set of problems). Keeping that detachment is difficult.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: Creating Military Culture From Scratch

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Yeah, but once the fighting stars all this would have to be thrown out unless you don't mind losing. Military organiations cannot operate that way in wartime.
Nor can anyone who goes into danger.

I once had a custom on a tramp starship where it was permissible to present a complaint to the captain. But NOT ON THE BRIDGE.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #45
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Anyone you continue to serve with becomes difficult to endanger (unless they are a real #(*@&, which presents its own set of problems). Keeping that detachment is difficult.
I would assume the recruitment and training process would weed out most of those that had a major problem with death, killing, and seeing others die. Of course only the real complete/partial sociopaths would have no problem with that.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:52 PM   #46
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...
Yeah, but once the fighting stars all this would have to be thrown out unless you don't mind losing. Military organiations cannot operate that way in wartime.
Theoretically, soldiers are supposed to disobey illegal orders.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:01 PM   #47
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Any organisation is made of people, and people bring their memes with them. If most of the people that formed the organisation were not infected by hazing and bigotry memes (and are actually infected with memes of justice and civil rights), and there were no or few carriers of these memes already in place, then those memes are much less likely to entrench themselves in the organisation.
Unless they carry competitive benefits with them. In that case, they'll reappear.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:03 PM   #48
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Conversely, in a sci-fi setting where you either have power armor or robots doing the fighting, excluding women from the ranks that fight starts to make less and less sense. Whatever your (thread derailing) feelings on the source and justifications of bigotry in a military, the OP has room to come at the question from another direction, and it does make for an interesting difference to current militaries.
A pure-space based military, using reaction drive ships of technology that we can understand or at least comprehend right now, would actually gain an advantage with all-female crews, in that they mass less, use slightly less air and water per crewwoman, etc. Is it likely to work out that way? Probably not.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:04 PM   #49
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Unless they carry competitive benefits with them. In that case, they'll reappear.
Dehumanizing the enemy is darn near required for effective warfare. Treating "the enemy" like fellow human beings with ALL civil rights you have loses wars.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:06 PM   #50
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A pure-space based military, using reaction drive ships of technology that we can understand or at least comprehend right now, would actually gain an advantage with all-female crews, in that they mass less, use slightly less air and water per crewwoman, etc. Is it likely to work out that way? Probably not.
No. If you want smaller crew, then you recruit based on mass not sex.
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