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04-24-2019, 03:07 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Cracking water in TRAVELLER
I have to be wrong about this - please tell me that I'm wrong!
This is what I find elsewhere on the net... "Water has a rel molecular weight of 18 amu, so 1 mole of water has a mass of 18 grams. So, 1,000 grams of water contains 1,000/18 moles = 55.5 moles. Therefore 1 litre of H2O produces 111 moles of H, and 55.5 moles of O." Elsewhere I find... "Avogadro's rule for molar volume states that one mole of any ideal gas occupies 22.4 liters of volume" If the above mentioned items are correct - to fill 13.5 Kiloliters with Hydrogen, you'd need something like 5 liters of water. Please tell me the math is wrong. Please? If I'm right? One need only carry a single dTon of water in your hold, plus the empty fuel tankage you need to fill with Hydrogen for when you want to jump, and you're golden. if 5 liter of volume = 0.176573333607443 cubic feet, then 500 cubic feet of water will produce about 2831.6846591999992182374156967191 dTons of hydrogen Fuel. These numbers MUST be off! Last edited by hal; 04-24-2019 at 03:09 PM. Reason: spelling error correction |
04-24-2019, 04:14 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Cracking water in TRAVELLER
Hydrogen fuel in Traveller is liquid hydrogen, not hydrogen gas, so 1 dton (14 cubic meters) is actually 1 ton of hydrogen. 9 cubic meters of water weighs 9 tons and can be cracked for 8 tons oxygen and 1 ton hydrogen.
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04-24-2019, 08:40 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Cracking water in TRAVELLER
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04-24-2019, 09:18 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Cracking water in TRAVELLER
Yes. The molar volume of an ideal gas depends on the conditions - 22.4 liters is for a specific one - the old definition of standard temperature and pressure (0 C and 1 atmosphere). It's 22.71 liters for the more modern version of STP (10^5 bars), and there are half a dozen other kinds of "standard conditions" for gases, so other values in the 20 to 25 liter range are possible depending on your source. None of them are anywhere close to the conditions required to have *liquid* hydrogen. The molar volume of liquid hydrogen at it's boiling point (20.28 K and 1 atmosphere) is about 0.0284 liters, about 789 times smaller. This is pretty typical, most things expand by a factor of 600 to 800 when they boil.
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-- MA Lloyd |
04-24-2019, 10:45 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Cracking water in TRAVELLER
Based on what you guys are telling me, I presume that for purposes of storage, and that the time to purify water into its "hydrogen" component - it makes more sense to keep your tanks filled with water until you anticipate needing it for the hydrogen. I'm thinking based on Anthony's numbers that 9 cubic meters of water will produce 1 dTon of hydrogen, that the ratio of Water to Hydrogen is about 64% (or if using 13.5 Cubic Meters of volume per CT, we're looking at .67% For a 100 dTon scoutship - back when the ships could only manage Jump 1, they could have had 10 dTons of fuel tankage for the primary jump, and then carry an additional 7 dTons of water. Cracked into Hydrogen, it would have given them the necessary 10 dTons of hydrogen for the next jump without even needing additional fuel.
Best of all, it doesn't require cryogenic storage. That's just a minor nitpick after all these years. I can't help but wonder what the workup would be for Ammonia (why use Methane if you have better uses for Methane?) Thanks again guys. :) |
04-24-2019, 11:32 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Cracking water in TRAVELLER
Nitpick - CT always used 14 cubic metres per displacement ton.
The 13.5 cubic metres was a DGPism introduced in MT which is based on deckplans square size rather than the volume of one ton of liquid hydrogen, |
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