Could Kickstarter be the future of future GURPS Hardbacks?

[Kuroshima]

Kickstarter could also work well for reprints:

when the print run runs out, start a kickstarter. Those who pledge more than X get the book (X being 95% of the book's MSRP). If the book reaches the minimum funding goal, then it is reprinted as a full color hardcover (just like the original). If it does not, then it is reprinted (or not) as B&W softcover as they've been doing right now.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by the adventurer

Do you see that sort of crowd-funding as the future of print RPG material, and should Steve Jackson Games keep using it for future projects? Or should we just settle with a PDF dominated future (not that there's anything wrong with that)?

I think crowdfunding might provide an alternative mechanism for risk mitigation for print to SJG's PDF-profits-must-completely-pay-for-the-cost-of-the-print-run-before-a-print-run-is-considered model for GURPS, but given SJGs reliance on freelancers for GURPS, I don't see it actually being used directly to fund development of books.

So, I can see it for a way to get more of the PDF-first products into print, and get them into print more quickly, but I don't see it as a way to get full-sized hardbacks development more often or more quickly (except indirectly, as getting books into print more quickly with a good risk mitigation strategy might increase SJGs overall profits and thus the resources they can devote to development and the risks they can afford to take on that end -- which tend to be risks of the type that crowdfunding doesn't mitigate, such as the risk of the contracted author not turning in acceptable product on time -- which makes higher-risk projects like ~160+ page supplements that would make sense as hardbacks more tolerable.)

[Tomsdad]

That would seem to be the best goal, a series of such fund raising to facilitate an ongoing product stream. One were the occasional hiccup like an unforeseen development delays would be mitigated, because as you say the overall easing of cashflow and risk would smooth development.

As much as I hate to admit it, stepping back from 256 pg Hard backs and going back to 128pg softbacks might more sense here. To make the product development stream less chunky as it were.

Even though I dislike PDFs I wouldn't mind funding them, especially if it meant I could get what I wanted rather than just saying yes or no to what ever turns up.

On a tangent, I would quite happily see some PDFs stats books for vehicles, or guns or additional MA's etc, etc. I'm basically lazy and would welcome this kind of supplement to books already out to fill in some gaps*. And I'd have thought the development costs would be lower than releases incorporating new systems like Spaceships etc. 4e updates of 3e favourites would fit in here as well I guess?

One of the strengths of PDFs is that you can cater to specific tastes in detail without worrying as much about commercial appeal as you would with physical books, and kickstarter would further reduce this concern.

*I'm thinking along the lines of the pulp guns releases, E.g. "guns and vehicles of the 80's action movies" etc, etc But the way the Low tech supplements were handled was quite good as well (although the pricing wasn't quite right IMO but only a minor issue, it's always going to be more cost efficient to buy one big book than one medium size and a couple of smaller ones)

[thulben]

In a word, yes. It worked for OOTS.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

On a tangent, I would quite happily see some PDFs stats books for vehicles, or guns or additional MA's etc, etc. I'm basically lazy and would welcome this kind of supplement to books already out to fill in some gaps*. And I'd have thought the development costs would be lower than releases incorporating new systems like Spaceships etc. 4e updates of 3e favourites would fit in here as well I guess?

Nobody is apparently writing these, so just throwing money at it doesn't really help.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Nobody is apparently writing these, so just throwing money at it doesn't really help.

That's the point at the moment we get what people feel like writing (the money follows the urge), if we kick started it then the money would provide the impetus to write them, i.e the money would drive the urge.

Instead of 'thank you for writing this have some money if it sells', it would be 'here's some money raised from people who want it please write this'.

Basically throwing money at it might increase the chance of it being written, especially the more prosaic stuff like lists of stats etc.

Obviously this requires the demand in the first place, if its both no one wants to write it and no one want to read it than yes it's a dead duck. But again with kick starter you have a better chance of actually knowing that, rather than assuming it based on the fact that the product doesn't yet exist.

[ClayDowling]

This seems unlikely to work. In addition to the financial outlay to produce a book that nobody really wants to work on, this represents a huge opportunity cost. While resources are dedicated to this, such as editorial, layout and warehousing, other projects that people wanted to do are starved.

Based on the fact that nobody is stepping up to produce these kinds of books, I think we can safely say that eithier there's no market for them, or nobody wants to write them, and quite possibly both. I know the prospect of producing something like that sounds deathly dull to me, and I certainly wouldn't devote my spare time to doing it no matter what the financial incentive. I could spend that time fishing, woodworking, or gaming to far more positive effect on my life.

[The Cardinal]

GURPS projects for Kickstarter:

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy
- depending on the funding level: (a) Dungeon Fantasy hc (incl. a GURPS Lite version, several ready-made monsters & treasures) (b) DF Player's Guide hc & DF GM's Guide (c) 3 book deal: Player/GM/Monsters

GURPS Transhuman Space 4e hc

GURPS Cyberworld (& maybe Cthulhupunk) reloaded 4e

GURPS Conan 4e

...and really crazy stuff: GURPS4e Shadowrun reloaded!

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by ClayDowling

This seems unlikely to work. In addition to the financial outlay to produce a book that nobody really wants to work on, this represents a huge opportunity cost. While resources are dedicated to this, such as editorial, layout and warehousing, other projects that people wanted to do are starved.

Surely that the whole point of a kickstarter, you ascertain the demand, and collect the funds before you allocate the resource. So long as there's a return on investment the second issue is also not a problem. What people want to work on is secondary to what people want to buy (from a running a business and self sufficient product line POV). As to opportunity cost that why I recommended a product stream of such kick starters. If you have five such products going at the same time (but staggered) with guaranteed income from kick starter then shared resource allocation is that much easier.

As to not wanting to work on a book are we really saying that there's freelancers out their not interested in being paid to write GURPS books? If so we have bigger problem than funding strategies.

Originally Posted by ClayDowling

Based on the fact that nobody is stepping up to produce these kinds of books, I think we can safely say that eithier there's no market for them, or nobody wants to write them, and quite possibly both.

Maybe the second but the first is an assumption that can only really be tested by processes like a kick starter. Also I'd guess that desire to do something is slightly different when there's a known fixed reward rather than a possibility of a future one.

Originally Posted by ClayDowling

I know the prospect of producing something like that sounds deathly dull to me, and I certainly wouldn't devote my spare time to doing it no matter what the financial incentive. I could spend that time fishing, woodworking, or gaming to far more positive effect on my life.

That might be true of your work/life balance, but I'm guessing for those freelancers for whom freelancing is method of employment they're not thinking in terms of the most enjoyable use of their free time, but what they can be paid for.

Given that we've had a couple of releases based on weapons of the 20's & 30's your opinion doesn't appear to universally held either.

What you seem to be describing is co-operative fan supported product production based on contributor interest. This may well fit the current plan. I'm describing more of a commercial plan to increase revenue and product. I'm not saying either is 'best' (their apples and oranges anyway), but you can still support the former with the latter, not so much the other way round.

[Pragmatic]

The trouble with using Kickstarter to fund a new product is, it risks producing "vaporware." Representatives of SJ Games have already stated that they wouldn't use it on a product that wasn't already pretty much complete--because the author might just disappear, or the manuscript may end up being not worth publishing.

They only used Kickstarter on Ogre 6E because it was already written. The Kickstarter simply allows them to get better "bells and whistles"--artwork, maps, counters, etc.

So focus on items that are already written, but can use some "bling." Reprinting OOP books, for instance, MIGHT be something that SJ Games might consider. But getting them to produce GURPS India (something I'd LOVE to see...)--well, I'm not going to be be holding my breath.