Buried alive - Need Help

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

They've been customised.

gudmo
These spiders are the Acid Spiders from Dungeon Fantasy Monsters except these have Armor Piercing bite (3) which makes them extremely deadly.

Ah OK right, missed that (nasty).

OK then that's worse 2d+1 (3) Imp, will on average start doing damage through the stone's DR once the stone DR has dropped to 23 which if I'm right (and the acid cycles from multiple bites stack) takes 9 bites, at one bite per second.

Once the bite it getting through DR you have a big problem in that the acid then bypasses the DR and goes straight to the HP. Up until then even though the acid is great at ablating the DR it struggles to burn through the DR and into the HP because the Stone's DR has a lower minimum value that can't be lost through the ablative rules.

Which basically, means once they start to go those HP's are going to go quickly!

[Daigoro]

Cast Delay on Force Dome, to trigger when the stone shell is breached, or to give more time, when one of the party members calls "Breach!" The mage then has some to recuperate and start over for the next leg of the advance.

So how long does it take for a spider to get through? They're big, so I can only see one spider at a time attacking any one hex-section of the shell.

[Tomsdad]

And I realise I was calculating the average wrong on the acid damage to DR (Varyon was right in his post) it's average 1.5dr lost per second for 10 seconds per bite

so I have total DR loss as follows:

1st sec: 1.5
2nd sec: 4.5
3rd sec: 9
4th sec: 15
5th sec: 22.5
6th sec: 31.5
7th sec: 45
8th sec: 54
9th sec 67.5
10th sec 82.5 (although DR loss is maxed out below that)

It slightly complicated by the fact that those last couple of seconds any new bites might well be applying their follow on corr attack direct to the HP, and not DR. But there will still be enough acid cycles from previous bite to drop the DR to it's minimum while that happens, the DR loss will just slow slightly at the end

[gudmo]

Truly inspired stuff here, we're going to have a hefty debate next session.

Two things I'd like to point out or mention if I haven't already.

GM hinted that not all the spiders were of this Acid variety. Some even magical that would not have a problem walking through a Force Dome (Effectivly squashing any ideas of ours to use force wall or dome spells)

The second thing is that the mage does have Wild Talent and could thus muster up any one spell once per session.

[Brandon_Corey]

Originally Posted by gudmo

The second thing is that the mage does have Wild Talent and could thus muster up any one spell once per session.

I suggest casting Air Vortex on your team. There's not much the spiders can do to a party of diffuse characters flying away at Move 10 towards the nearest exit. However it might mean leaving most of your gear behind if the GM says the spell will only affect living beings.

Teleportation magic would be even better, of course, but if you're playing DF it's not something your wizard can cast.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by gudmo

Truly inspired stuff here, we're going to have a hefty debate next session.

Two things I'd like to point out or mention if I haven't already.

GM hinted that not all the spiders were of this Acid variety. Some even magical that would not have a problem walking through a Force Dome (Effectivly squashing any ideas of ours to use force wall or dome spells)

Yeah, I do think adding more variables into the mix in terms of the capabilities of the spiders pretty much means you don't go near them!


Now I don't know your GM, but to me this has the smell of a no win obstacle, and that you have to avoid it, not go through it so to speak

A sadistic GM would have dangled some amazing prize to further tempt you to go through it ;-)

Originally Posted by gudmo

The second thing is that the mage does have Wild Talent and could thus muster up any one spell once per session.

That's true, sadly I'm not good enough on GURPS spells to really have a workable idea on this one, but yeah could be an ace up the sleeve.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Brandon_Corey

I suggest casting Air Vortex on your team. There's not much the spiders can do to a party of diffuse characters flying away at Move 10 towards the nearest exit. However it might mean leaving most of your gear behind if the GM says the spell will only affect living beings.

Teleportation magic would be even better, of course, but if you're playing DF it's not something your wizard can cast.

With Wild talent and spells does needing to "meet the advantage requirement" mean you'd need to have Magery 2 to access Air Vortex, or is just having Magery at any level enough?

(I'm not sure as the unknown spell example is explicitly made in the text and it just says "magery" after all)

Also a slight potential issue is Air Vortex can't penetrate sold material so you'd have to do this in the open and it's a 2 turn cast time, so you might need to be a bit careful when you do it.

On the leaving kit behind, Vortex of air basically gives everyone body of air which states up to 6lbs of clothing is transformed, so I don't know you might lose everything else?

[Brandon_Corey]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

With Wild talent and spells does needing to "meet the advantage requirement" mean you'd need to have Magery 2 to access Air Vortex, or is just having Magery at any level enough?

I believe you'd need Magery 2.

Also a slight potential issue is Air Vortex can't penetrate sold material so you'd have to do this in the open and it's a 2 turn cast time, so you might need to be a bit careful when you do it.

True. However, you can argue that it can deform and pass through smaller openings - it's only air, after all. Or maybe not - it's up to GM, i guess.

On the leaving kit behind, Vortex of air basically gives everyone body of air which states up to 6lbs of clothing is transformed, so I don't know you might lose everything else?

Yes, only the characters' clothes will transform with them. But by RAW a character with Body of Air only loses 10 points of ST, so the barbarian can still carry a lot of stuff. Especially since the Move of Air Vortex is 10 and it doesn't seem to be affected by the characters' encumbrance.
Though I personally would rule that Air Vortex can vaporise and carry away all the characters and their stuff in its area - i really don't see the difference between creatures and objects here.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Brandon_Corey

I believe you'd need Magery 2.

Ah OK cool. And actually while I thought gudmo had started the mage only had Magery1, checking I realise they didn't say either way so it may not be problem

Originally Posted by Brandon_Corey

True. However, you can argue that it can deform and pass through smaller openings - it's only air, after all. Or maybe not - it's up to GM, i guess.

Good point (and yeah if I was GM I'd certainly allow it)

Originally Posted by Brandon_Corey

Yes, only the characters' clothes will transform with them. But by RAW a character with Body of Air only loses 10 points of ST, so the barbarian can still carry a lot of stuff. Especially since the Move of Air Vortex is 10 and it doesn't seem to be affected by the characters' encumbrance.

Good point again! NOt quite sure how it interacts with encumbrance, but either good point.

Originally Posted by Brandon_Corey

Though I personally would rule that Air Vortex can vaporise and carry away all the characters and their stuff in its area - i really don't see the difference between creatures and objects here.

yeah I might well rule the same!

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Cast Delay on Force Dome, to trigger when the stone shell is breached, or to give more time, when one of the party members calls "Breach!" The mage then has some to recuperate and start over for the next leg of the advance.

Could work

Originally Posted by Daigoro

So how long does it take for a spider to get through? They're big, so I can only see one spider at a time attacking any one hex-section of the shell.

OK I'm not quite sure what we're going to class as getting through but lets say -1xHP*. Going with Mlangsdorf's figure of DR 72* and HP 50 per hex 10ftsq, and DR won't ablate lower then DR3.

Going with a strict average 8pts of imp damage per bite and 1.5 pts of corr damage per cycle.

The stone is homogenous so Imp "injury" is x1/2 corr stays the same at x1.


Right so initially the bites won't get past DR, so only the corr follow up matters. By my figure's above it will take 8 bites at 1 bite per second and each with follow on 10 cycles 1 cycle per second to drop the DR to 18.

Once that happens the HP will start to be reduced in two ways,

1). the average 8 damage imp bite with AD(3) will start to get through the DR and into the HP. The 9th bite will be 8 damage - 18/3DR = 2 *0.5 = 1 injury. There will be enough acid left attacking the DR from previous bites to finish wiping out the DR albeit not quite as quickly as any new bites with their follow on attack are going through to the HP and not adding to the DR reduction. (Also any acid left attacking the DR after the DR is dropped to 3 has no further effect as it can't beat DR and get to the HP)

If I'm right the 10th bite will be vs DR6 so will be 8 damage - 6/3DR = 6 *0.5 = 3 injury

after that the DR bottoms out at DR3 and 11th and subsequent bites will be 8 damage - 3/3DR = 7 *0.5 = 3 injury


and

2). That follow on corr attack will now hit the HP because the carrier attack got past DR. HP will now start to be lost at the same rate as I listed out in post #63. e.g by itself 97.5hp will be lost by the 11th bite where it's going straight to HP

Right so if I'm right adding this all together it's as follows

Bites 1-8 bite do nothing corr follow up attacks ablates DR down to DR18
Bites 9-18 bite and corr removes 110.5 hps which will drop the section of stone to less than -1xHP


Assume one SM+2 Spider per one hex section biting once a second that's 18 seconds. I do think you might get a spider on the 4 hex roof though.

I agree I can't see more than one spider getting at a section at a time, although maybe since they're biting an inanimate object that isn't defending itself they could AoA(dbl) and bite twice a second! (but frankly that's just unfair).

But you have more facings in terms of hexes than occupants. PCs in the 1st and 4th hex have three touching hexes, the middle two have two each, and of course you have the spider on the roof coming down on another hex.



All in all, in terms of a fantasy dungeon ecology I think a large colony of acid spider works well!



EDIT: and I don't know what it says about either me or my job, but that little GURPS thought exercise in Acid Spider demolition has been the most interesting part of my day so far!



*given that these stone sections are having a mob of SM+2 ST26 monsters pushing up against them all during this there going to be stressed.