08-08-2016, 10:44 PM | #11 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
I guess, but that means that the real expenses have numerous non-physical cultural aspects like licensing and blueprints.
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08-08-2016, 11:08 PM | #12 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
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The tactical vests do not fit any other armor as for example building them with UT tailored armor from the concealable armor by making it heavy would result in about the same protection, but less than half the weight. A tailored "heavy" reflex torso+groin protection is 4.2 lb and 18/6 DR and $630 A Reflex Tactical Vest is 9lb, DR 18/7 and $900. So you have to throw away some data points if you want a consistent system. It is the same as with rest of UT, there soooooo many bugs. But if you use the Concealable Ballistic Armors as base then they work fine with cutting edge armor design. A nanoweave suit comes to 8.0703lb and $1210.55 so the rounding to 8lb/1200 is the same as the UT value. As for thicknesses: UT limits them to 1.5 times the base value but cutting edge allow much thicker armors. UT max for making the concealable armors heavy is at 1/5 inch, cutting edge allows for 1/2 inch. As for the UT tac suits, theu incorporate things like climate control and have different DR progression with much higher DR against non ballistic threats, so they are likely some other material. Quote:
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08-08-2016, 11:36 PM | #13 | |||||||
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: A crappy state called Illinois
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
I'll take a stab at some of these.
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CM: Don't know for sure but I think the $150 at TL10 is for the full TL10 version. If you don't think it is then I'd say it's no more then $200/lbs. DR/in: 143 Max DR: 72 Notes and Construction should be as TL9 Nanoweave. Quote:
WM: 0.23 CM: $150 DR/in: 121 Max DR: 61 This pure speculation on my part though. Quote:
Well diamondoid is pretty much the settings equivalent of a "Chobham" type armor. It has WM 0.06, CM $350, Dr/in 247 and a min DR of 99. Quote:
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Hope I was of some help.
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GURB: Ultra-Tech Reloaded Normies: Man! The government is filled with liars and thieves! Me: Well yeah, here's what they're lying about, what they're stealing from you, and who's doing it. Normies: Rolls eyes Shut up conspiracy theorist Me: >.> |
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08-09-2016, 04:22 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
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On the other hand, it is a realistic reason to increase the cost of any PC-designed armour by an arbitrary number, particularly if it doesn't seem like such a design would be a good seller. Of course, PCs with 'jailbroken' minifacs and connections to the TSA webs might be able to ignore IP costs for things they make, but that would make them data pirates and potentially targets for the WTO.
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08-09-2016, 04:38 AM | #15 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
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So I'd like to stat that Arachnoweave. What would best fit the material I am looking for is dropping the Weight to 2/3 of the Weight of the TL9 Arachnoweave and then declaring that Arachnoweave can take memswear modification without extra weight. This makes it extremely desirable for clothing that is not supposed to look like armour, but the relatively low DR (for TL10) means that it won't be used in many tactical suits. I was thinking that merely reducing WM might not justify raising the price up to full TL9 price. Say $500, to fit the THS price of an Arachnoweave vest. Quote:
The primary choices that PCs and major NPCs have will be TL9 Arachnoweave, TL10 Advanced Arachnoweave, TL9 Basic Nanoweave ('Carbonweave') and TL10 Nanoweave. It would be in line with THS source material if it was easier to get light Arachnoweave either with built-in memswear climate control or layered with cloth that had it, but I don't know how plausible that is. Surely, if that's possible, the technology exists for Nanoweave as well. Quote:
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 08-18-2016 at 02:50 AM. |
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08-18-2016, 03:17 AM | #16 | ||||||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
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Why did you decide to drop WM to 0.21? Is there any reason to assume that the kind of Nanoweave used for ballistic fabric gets inherently lighter for a given volume, as opposed to just becoming stronger per weight and volume? Quote:
If it can be scientifically justified, the kind of TL10 Arachnoweave that I'd prefer to use in my campaign has the same DR as the TL9 Arachnoweave, but the improvements consist of being as much lighter for this performance as can be plausibly imagined and in being as comfortable as possible. The setting role for Arachnoweave, if this can be done without violence to real-world science, is as clothing that will stop many holdout pistol bullets, but not look anything like armour and can be worn all day even in hot climates. It would help if it could breathe more than other ballistic fabrics by default and I assume that designing climate control systems into it is extremely common. Nanoweave is the primary flexible fabric used by affluent militaries and police forces, with TL9 Basic Nanoweave, under the generic name Carbonweave, being the most popular ballistic fabric worldwide. Both kinds would benefit from some form of climate control, of course, at least for whole body suits meant to be worn all day. Quote:
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But is there any realistic reason to assume this? High DR seems to be a design goal very much opposite to porous and breathable, regardless of material. To take a low TL example, silk clothing may usually be light and cool, but silk armour is made from densely layered raw silk and is not particularly porous. Quote:
One assumption that science fiction settings often make is that climate control and smart fabrics will allow for clothing that is cool and comfortable while still having enough DR to stop attacks from many or most concealable civilian personal weapons. I'd like to know how to best accomplish that, using actual technological progress, rather than handwavium. Assuming, of course, that it is possible and practical. Quote:
That is, if Arachnoweave or Nanoweave cannot be designed as memswear itself. Which I have no idea about. Certainly, you were.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 08-18-2016 at 03:20 AM. |
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08-18-2016, 12:24 PM | #17 | |||||||||
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: A crappy state called Illinois
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
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For example Mild steel has a DR of around 52/inch while RHA has DR 70/inch but they both have the same specific gravity. Because of this mild steel has a WM of 0.78 while RHA has a WM of 0.58. The formula for WM is (Material specific gravity (in pounds) /12)/DR per inch. Quote:
So in short, 0.32/1.5 equals 0.213333~ rounded off to 0.21. Quote:
I think you can, technically, but at that point you'd be using the spider as a biological factory to produce something that isn't really spider silk anymore. The only way to lower the Archnoweaves weight without changing its strength is by changing its molecular structure so its less dense. Most of the real world research I've seen has been about making spider silk stronger for the same weight then making it lighter for the same strength. However, if you want it to be the same DR per inch and have the spiders are making something only distantly related to spider silk then I'm not sure how much lighter you can get it. Spider silk is already really light at around 1.3g/cc or so and even carbon nanotubes are roughly the same specific gravity. Pure speculation here but I'd say I spider silk/carbon nanofiber composite would at best lower this to 1g/cc. This would give TL10 Archnoweave a WM of 0.25 instead of 0.21. Personally I'd just say at this point is that bio-engineered spiders are how they make Nanoweave if this is the case. Quote:
Unfortunately there's not a lot of data out there on how well it breaths or how comfortable it is to wear since we're just barely at the point now we can do stuff like this. As you can figure right now they're more concerned about it stopping bullets then being comfortable. Though now that I think about it, the Arachnoweave would probably be dipped into a bounding agent, probably a shear thickening one, to help "brace" the threads and this will probably stiffen it. Now how stiff with this make it? Given that this is TL10 tech... its hard to say. Now, once again pure speculation, if I had to guess, I'd say that Arachnoweave is stiffer and less comfortable then pure spider silk but no more then clothes made from cheap-synthetic fibers are today. Yeah, it won't breath like Egyptian cotton but I think its a fair trade off if it saves your life. Quote:
You're welcome :D Quote:
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Till we get something better, I propose that memswear weights 0.0005bs per square foot. Thanks. It makes my day knowing that I can be of service.
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GURB: Ultra-Tech Reloaded Normies: Man! The government is filled with liars and thieves! Me: Well yeah, here's what they're lying about, what they're stealing from you, and who's doing it. Normies: Rolls eyes Shut up conspiracy theorist Me: >.> |
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08-30-2016, 06:39 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
Hello Gentlemen,
While trying to see if I could use the same systematic approach for Cutting Edge armors for Classic Ultratech, I wondered if there was a way to estimate surface area of individuals more closely, thus allowing for some truly "custom" armor choices... The following two URL's involved Basic Surface Area calculations. One URL (the one immediately below) asks for the weight and height of the individual, and calculates the surface area of the individual. http://www.calculator.net/body-surfa...alculator.html The other, lists the various formulas used for BAS. Since it is a Wikipedia article, I don't know how accurate that information is. It is however, a way to have some fun with your characters... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_surface_area I suspected that at 6'3 (I be shrinking a little in my old age alas), and 311 lbs of weight, that I'd be considered a little bit larger than 21 point something square feet in surface area. Granted, I could stand to loose about 60 lbs to reach a weight more in keeping with what I weighed at my best (I was skin and bones at 180 lbs in 1978, final growth around 240's, and anything above that was padding so to speak). So Du Bois formula: Youthful skinny: 2.13 Square meters or 22.96 Square feet Mid-life best: 2.39 square meters or 25.77 Square feet Current: 2.65 square meters OR 28.49 Square feet Anyone who gets the "standardized" sized armor could legitimately be treated as if they were in "ill fitting armor" perhaps? It shouldn't be too hard to create an excel spreadsheet to do the calculations, or even a VB.NET based program (or VBA for that matter) to do the calculations for you. The Hard part might be in creating the armor entry for a character in GURPS CHARACTER ASSISTANT. Just a few extra "thoughts". By the by, thank you for posting the climate control aspect that was missing from the final draft of Ultratech. |
08-30-2016, 06:41 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Cutting-Edge Armor Design at TL10
Now if I could only find the person who created the data file for GCA that permitted one to create armor by the GURPS LOW TECH rules. THAT would be awesome to use the same approach to making armor but substituting the Cutting Edge rules instead of the LOW TECH rules. :)
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Tags |
armor, cutting edge, cutting-edge armor design, ultra-tech armor |
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