Snickersnee and a scary clown boss question

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by Progmode

You know very well what I meant, and your example is not at all the same thing.

Hush, or I'll throw Munchkin carols at you. :)

[dullorb]

You must beat the boss monster to win. The item allows you to automatically beat it. I see only one interpretation myself. You're not avoiding combat you're just winning it.

Sure it's cheesy but that's part of the charm of the game.

[Progmode]

Originally Posted by dullorb

You must beat the boss monster to win. The item allows you to automatically beat it. I see only one interpretation myself. You're not avoiding combat you're just winning it.

Sure it's cheesy but that's part of the charm of the game.

Bob pointed out the same thing, and I thought of that already. I understand that line of thinking. But even so, the rules say:

Originally Posted by The Rules, Page 8,
Where’d Those Monsters Go?

Some events can completely remove monsters from combat: instant kills, banishments and vanishments, cards that can move a monster away at any time, and so on. If at least one monster remains in the room, the combat continues. If any of the dead or fled monsters had Treasures or dropped any loot, it can’t be claimed until the defeat of the remaining monster(s).

and

Originally Posted by The Rules, Page 11, The Boss Monster

No card or power will let you bypass this combat!

I'd say an "automatic defeat" counts as an "instant kill," especially given Will's response above. By definition an instant kill removes the monster from combat. That's bypassing the combat as I see it.

And if the Snickersnee auto-defeating the Clown Boss works, it isn't that much of a stretch to say that Dispelling would work on any Boss monster. Sure, Dispel Monster says it doesn't count as a kill, but does it count as defeating it? You're in combat, you aren't removing it from from the Entrance, you aren't controlling it, and it didn't ignore you. It just opens up a gray area.

All of that being said, I'll follow the official ruling as is. No disrespect is intended.

[skatingtortoise]

ooooooh good rules lawyering there. i think prog wins it with the 'instant kill' point (though i dont recall that being there).

this would be an 'instant kill' i think.

also anyone deliberately trying to do this and actually managing it (like a divine intervention win) deserves to be roundly pummeled by his friends, for his own good.

[MunchkinMan]

There's no winning this argument. The official ruling has been laid down, and I think we're starting to travel into the Novalueadded Land.

Dispel Monster is very different than the Snickersnee and the Scary Clowns situation and won't work to get rid of the boss monster.

[Progmode]

To bring this back to Valueadded land, does Munchkin Quest make the same distinction between Defeat and Kill that Munchkin does? I.e. Does an "automatic defeat" grant just treasure or levels and treasure?

[MunchkinMan]

Clearly, the intent of the card is to kill the Scary Clowns immediately. I'm the one who made the biggest distinction and no matter how many times I press, cards go through with the word defeat on them when it should probably say kill. Of course, I never saw these cards before printing, so I'm off the hook for that one. . . ;-)

[skatingtortoise]

you know we only bring up these non-debates just to infuriate you MM :)

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by O'Keefe

The Snickersnee does automatically defeat the Clowns boss, but you still have to do the 2.6 second thing, so another monster could be added to the fight before it was technically over.

I had this come up in last nights game. I read everything that was said and I just want clarification.

I had the Snickersnee and the Clowns were the boss mob. Someone wandered in a Monster. I assume I can still use cards like dispell monster to remove the wandered monster from this room/combat and then I am only left with the Boss monster which is defeated correct?

The only monster I cannot banish is the Boss monster right? How would I handle banish type cards that remove all monsters from combat? Would it remove all but the boss or would that type not be playable on the final boss fight.

Basically, are the cards allowed but the boss is unaffected or are the cards just not allowed to be played and if so which type, the single target, room target or all of the above?

Sentinel

[Cheddar Limbo]

Sentinel, the rules for the Boss fight seem to apply only to the Boss Monster itself, not to the entire battle. So in the scenario you describe it would be okay to banish another monster that was added to the fight.