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Old 12-20-2019, 01:40 AM   #61
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Armour / Encumbrance alternative?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
In other words, I need to accept that the city guard will be on 7-10 AdjDX to hit in their chainmail outfits and that's perfectly okay.

I would be interested to know if that's how other GMs do it - city guard in chain with low AdjDX, or do you boost their DX a bit, or do you just put them in cloth armour?
Our city guards and army regulars, at least in all the more civilized parts, were always 34 point characters as follows:

ST 13, DX 13(10), IQ 8, in chainmail and armed with halberds. The corporal in charge got IQ 10. Being always in squads of four or five, the adjDX of 10 and the 50% hit rate were quite enough to make them ample peacekeepers and escorts. And charging at them would give them adjDX 12 for their polearms, so you just didn't do that.

(In our campaign world, everyone started with 34 points, so these guards were only starting figures.)
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Old 12-20-2019, 09:34 PM   #62
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Armour / Encumbrance alternative?

As a previous poster outlined, the logical solution is to have a ST requirement for armour and shields. This is more in keeping with the spirit of the game than mucking around with the encumbrance rules (which don't exist in Melee/Wizard in any case). It also prevents the appearance of the low ST "tank" wearing plate and tower shield who uses DX to compensate for armour penalties. The tank is fun but without any basis in reality.
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Old 12-21-2019, 10:48 AM   #63
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Armour / Encumbrance alternative?

Agreed. ST requirement for armor and shields would make more sense. Though it would also enforce a very specific sort of stat distribution for characters who wear armor (sort of like there is only one stat distribution that 'works' for someone who has Martial Arts V)
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Old 12-21-2019, 12:11 PM   #64
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Armour / Encumbrance alternative?

First note that the warrior cards in the set are 34 point characters so consider Shield Expertise.

Second here are the encumbrance levels when carrying Sword, two daggers(0.4 lb), Small shield(10.0 lb), Bow, 20 arrows or quarrels(1.0 lb), Backpack(4.0 lb), Labyrinth kit(6.0 lb), two quarts of water(4.0 lb), two torches(1 lb), and two days rations(2.0 lb).

ST 9, Rapier(1.0 lb), Small Bow(4.0 lb), Leather Armor(16.0 lb), total 49.4 lb, 5.5xST

ST 10, Saber(3.0 lb), Horse Bow(4.0 lb), Leather Armor(16.0 lb), total 51.4 lb, 5.1xST

ST 11, Shortsword(4.0 lb), Long Bow(4.0 lb), Leather Armor(16.0 lb), total 52.4 lb, 4.8xST

ST 12, Broadsword(5.0 lb), Light Crossbow(6.0 lb), Chainmail(30.0 lb), total 69.4, 5.8xST

ST 13, Bastard Sword(7.0 lb), Light Crossbow(6.0 lb), Chainmail(30.0 lb), total 71.4 lb, 5.5xST

ST 14, no shield, 2-Handed Sword(10 lb), Light Crossbow(6.0 lb), Half-Plate(45.0 lb), total 79.4 lb, 5.7xST

ST 15, no shield, Battle Axe(22 lb), Heavy Crossbow(10.0 lb), Chainmail(30.0 lb), total 80.4 lb, 5.4xST

So the Conan comic book is correct. Your armor protection goes down as your ST goes up.
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:12 PM   #65
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Armour / Encumbrance alternative?

Average city guards would probably look something like this in my world:

ST 11
DX 10 (adjDX 8)
IQ 9

Leather, small shield and spear.

Brawling or Knife
One weapon, probably Pole Weapons (Spear)
Shield
An extra language
Area knowledge
maybe one other semi-useful talent. Horsemanship, driver, boating, Literacy, Animal Handler, Alertness, Missile weapon I, or some such.
A mundane talent or two
And he might still not have all of their IQ points used up since it takes some dedication for that, and most dedicated soldier types would not remain a city guard.

A militiaman would probably be lucky if they have even one weapon or shield talent properly trained and then they fight with 4/DX roll or go defensive, to stay alive.

I find it quite absurd that all bandits and military personnel have on average half of their talent points as a minimum dedicated to weapon use (according to the jobs table). A veteran or a soldier in a war zone, sure, but in my worlds, most lowly nobody NPC have a mundane talent and maybe area knowledge or one or two talents more at the most. I would probably set the average civilian person at 28 to 30 points and 5 talent points in total. Lots of room for improving new talents if they get the time and training. More important NPC might have filled up their IQ points and be up to 34 point characters. But above that are only very dedicated individuals or people with a proper education or a lot of free time for improvement.

When the attribute bloat was stopped by the new rules, so should it affect the rest of the population as well.

When it comes to tanking, it is not how much armor you could put on in a battle, but how much you could carry around on you, day out and day in. And then encumbrance would be important. So it is not that DX is more important than ST for a tank, it is the fact that ST has a straight scaling more or less, while DX truly uses the bell curve. So it will always be optimal to have DX in the 9-14 interval. And that means that a low attribute level character without attribute enhancing magic won't have much room for armor. But after some XP, attribute enchantments and such, DX is not the only thing that will make a tank, since we have toughness. And when you say tank, you usually talk about taking damage and be able to deal some damage back. Since a high ST character with a DX of 4 can take a lot more damage, but not deal it back consistently. So in the strictest sense not just a damage sponge.

But one alternative could be to lower adjST for half of the usual adjDX. This would be both from the encumbrance, and from the weight on the arms and general fatigue. So a man in half-plate would get -2adjST and -2adjDX. And with a ST of 12 he would only be able to wield a cutlass at adjST 10. Balance wise it would work out just fine, since you essentially transfer your damage potential on a 1:1 basis to your ability to take damage. And your extra basic ST means you can take more hits than the current tank with high DX, and hence be a better tank.

That is why you only get a +1 damage bonus for a 2h weapon since you transfer 1p of armor from the possibility of wearing a small shield to damage. (It should really be +2 damage since a shield can be expertised and enchanted for a bigger averager bonus than 2, but in basic melee and for low level campaigns it works fine).
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Old 12-23-2019, 03:28 PM   #66
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Armour / Encumbrance alternative?

Going around arctic conditions without at least cloth armor should cause environmental fatigue and wearing any armor in a steamy jungle should also be wearisome.

Light helmet: $5 0.5lb stops one hit against the head only, except for aimed shots to the face. Assumed that this or better included in any armor.

Hard helmet: $10 1.0lb stops two hits against the head only, except for aimed shots to the face. Assumed that this or better included in any leather armor.
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