Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2013, 11:42 PM   #1
munin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vermont, USA
Default Expanding RPM Enchantment

I realize enchantment is not the intended focus of RPM, but it's fun to explore possibilities for world building, so … some possible setting switches:

Exceeding Conditional Ritual Maximum

Some settings have magic item shops with hundreds of items on the shelves. To allow this with RPM, we need to allow enchanters to be able to exceed their conditional ritual maximum (CRM).

Based on the break-down of Magery (Ritual Path), increasing the CRM by 1 is worth a character point at most.

The easy way to allow mages to break an enchanted item out from their CRM is to require an extra character point's worth of effort – by default, 25 days of enchanting and a skill roll (I'd say, against the core skill, not the enchantment path skill).

"Faster" Slow and Sure Enchanting

Bonus Character Points:
Whatever the explanation, real-life experience seems to allow faster enchanting for a while. Enchanters can use bonus character points to hasten enchanting.

Material Sacrifice:
If mages can break enchanted items out of their CRM, then magic items will have a $ value relative to their character point total. The exact ratio will depend on the setting, but let's assume the $2,000 per character point implied in Supernatural Modifications (p. B295). This is enough for a solo professional enchanter to earn a Comfortable living at TL3 or a Struggling living at TL8 (cottage crafters just aren't as valued in modern times, real modern enchanting will be done on production lines). This switch allows enchanters to speed up enchanting by acquiring an enchantable character point for every $2,000 worth of materials sacrificed (destroyed, gifted to the gods/demons, etc.) – possibly just by burning paper money. Animals can be sacrificed according to their market value, but only if their remains aren't eaten, sold, etc.

For both of the options above, the GM decides for the setting whether the conversion is instantaneous or takes time (an hour per character point, or a day, or what). If it takes time, then faster enchanting will command a higher market price than slow enchanting (the enchanter is compensated for their sacrifice and their time), which makes sense. The conversion might also require an appropriate skill roll, either against the core skill or a skill appropriate to a material sacrifice (Symbol Drawing, Religious Ritual, etc.) – failure shouldn't cause you to lose a bonus character point (just time), but might waste your material sacrifice.

Permanent Transformations

There are certain permanent changes in fantasy that don't seem to be representable by centuries-long spells or gadget enchantments. The transformation into a lich is a good example -- it's a magical process, but once completed can't be dispelled and doesn't "go away" in a no mana area (the lich might have Mana Dependency, or other problems in a no mana area, but they generally don't stop being a lich). They might have a gadget-based Unkillable advantage, but their lich racial template is innate.

Other transformations (or granted abilities) might be affected by mana or could be suppressed (they have the Magical power modifier), but can't be removed and don't imply gadgets.

Such transformations would be statted up as abilities or meta-traits, but without the gadget modifiers.

Racial transformations (becoming a lich or an Unfettered, "I was born a human, but inside I've always been a dwarf!", etc.) could be built as Alternate Form with "One Use Ever, ×1/5" and "Magical, -10%" on the 15 point part (you change once, and then the ability is gone, you're permanently changed) and possibly Onset for slow transformations, plus the normal racial template difference (without the -10% reduction).



What else needs to be explored?
munin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 07:12 AM   #2
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
Exceeding Conditional Ritual Maximum

Some settings have magic item shops with hundreds of items on the shelves. To allow this with RPM, we need to allow enchanters to be able to exceed their conditional ritual maximum (CRM).

Based on the break-down of Magery (Ritual Path), increasing the CRM by 1 is worth a character point at most.

The easy way to allow mages to break an enchanted item out from their CRM is to require an extra character point's worth of effort – by default, 25 days of enchanting and a skill roll (I'd say, against the core skill, not the enchantment path skill).
It's actually more a feature of Magery (Ritual Path), and you can tweak depending on the campaign setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
"Faster" Slow and Sure Enchanting

Bonus Character Points:
Whatever the explanation, real-life experience seems to allow faster enchanting for a while. Enchanters can use bonus character points to hasten enchanting.

Material Sacrifice:
If mages can break enchanted items out of their CRM, then magic items will have a $ value relative to their character point total. The exact ratio will depend on the setting, but let's assume the $2,000 per character point implied in Supernatural Modifications (p. B295). This is enough for a solo professional enchanter to earn a Comfortable living at TL3 or a Struggling living at TL8 (cottage crafters just aren't as valued in modern times, real modern enchanting will be done on production lines). This switch allows enchanters to speed up enchanting by acquiring an enchantable character point for every $2,000 worth of materials sacrificed (destroyed, gifted to the gods/demons, etc.) – possibly just by burning paper money. Animals can be sacrificed according to their market value, but only if their remains aren't eaten, sold, etc.
Interesting thought, I pretty much used the same maths. I didn't go into that much detail - but I rather like your explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
For both of the options above, the GM decides for the setting whether the conversion is instantaneous or takes time (an hour per character point, or a day, or what). If it takes time, then faster enchanting will command a higher market price than slow enchanting (the enchanter is compensated for their sacrifice and their time), which makes sense. The conversion might also require an appropriate skill roll, either against the core skill or a skill appropriate to a material sacrifice (Symbol Drawing, Religious Ritual, etc.) – failure shouldn't cause you to lose a bonus character point (just time), but might waste your material sacrifice.
I'd say a critical failure on any rolls would cause you to lose 1/5 the total character points you put into in addition to any other effects as you suffer mystical backlash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
Permanent Transformations

There are certain permanent changes in fantasy that don't seem to be representable by centuries-long spells or gadget enchantments. The transformation into a lich is a good example -- it's a magical process, but once completed can't be dispelled and doesn't "go away" in a no mana area (the lich might have Mana Dependency, or other problems in a no mana area, but they generally don't stop being a lich). They might have a gadget-based Unkillable advantage, but their lich racial template is innate.

Other transformations (or granted abilities) might be affected by mana or could be suppressed (they have the Magical power modifier), but can't be removed and don't imply gadgets.

Such transformations would be statted up as abilities or meta-traits, but without the gadget modifiers.

Racial transformations (becoming a lich or an Unfettered, "I was born a human, but inside I've always been a dwarf!", etc.) could be built as Alternate Form with "One Use Ever, ×1/5" and "Magical, -10%" on the 15 point part (you change once, and then the ability is gone, you're permanently changed) and possibly Onset for slow transformations, plus the normal racial template difference (without the -10% reduction).
You shouldn't add One Use on that, the use ends when the duration does. That said I've used the following two methods in my own games:
  • The spell requires a certain amount of time to prepare, whether this is inventing or adapting the process to work on you, gathering materials, etc., it takes time. Figure out the cost of the template you are trying to transform into and use the Improvement Through Study (p. B292) to till you achieve enough character points to buy the template. You may add bonus character points normally to speed up the process.
  • The spell's power requirement is massive. Figure out the cost of the template you are trying to transform into and then multiply it by 5. Then use this cost to figure out the energy required for Altered Traits. There is precedent for this in the Fortune elixir (Pyramid 3/43: Thaumatology 3, p. 16). In fact, this is where the idea came from in the first place!

Example 1: Bob the Mad wants to become Bob the Lich, he's got a copy of how the Lich spell works thanks to a grimoire, but it's going to take time to adapt it to his body if he's going to survive the process. Since the Lich template is 105 character points (Magic, p. 160) this is going to take 21,000 hours of working out magical theorems, gathering the proper ingredients, and mixing them together properly. Since he's learning on his own this is going to take him 9 years and 215 days to finish (assuming 12 hours a day of self teaching). But Bob can reduce this time by using bonus character points to get to his final total. If Bob had a teacher this would reduce the time to 4 years and 294 days (assuming 12 hours days); or if using the Intensive Training rules the time it takes is 1 year and 292 days (assuming 16 hours).

Example 2: Might use a spell like this:

Lich
Spell Effects: Greater Transform Body + Greater Transform Undead.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Traits, Alternate Form (Lich)
Greater Effects: 2 (x5).

This spell turns the subject into a lich (Magic, p. 160)! After the spell is cast, the subject (almost always the caster) must roll vs. HT. Success means he rises as a lich 2d days later. If he fails, he dies! there is no duration for this spell because the effects (turning you into a lich take place instantly)

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body (8) + Greater Transform Undead (8) + Altered Traits, Alternate Form (Lich) (476*) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3). 2,475 energy (495×5).

* Includes a extra cost equal to the cost of the template x 5 to assume it permanently and adds "Backlash, Instant Death, Resistible to Alternate Form" (-150%).

Both of these methods are hard, because they should be! Turning yourself into a eldritch undead creature shouldn't be easier. You're definitely going to want to use Traditional Trappings, or Decanic Trappings (Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 36). I'll note, that turning yourself into a lich via a potion is probably easier and might look like this:

Elxiir of Lichdom
Spell Effects: Greater Transform Body + Greater Transform Undead + Lesser Create
Magic.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Traits, Alternate Form (Lich)
Greater Effects: 2 (x5).

This spell turns the subject into a lich (Magic, p. 160)! After the spell is cast, the subject (almost always the caster) must roll vs. HT. Success means he rises as a lich 2d days later. If he fails, he dies! there is no duration for this spell because the effects (turning you into a lich take place instantly)

Typical Form: Elixir.
Typical Ingredients: crypt dust, the thigh bone of a necromancer, well from a river or lake near a barrow, dirt taken from a unhallowed graveyard on the night of a new moon, crushed black diamonds, blood from a demon or angel, the heart of a vampire.
Typical Brewing: Greater Transform Body (8) + Greater Transform Undead (8) + Lesser Create Magic (6) + Altered Traits, Alternate Form (Lich) (476*) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3). 2,505 energy (501×5).

* Includes a extra cost equal to the cost of the template x 5 to assume it permanently and adds "Backlash, Instant Death, Resistible to Alternate Form" (-150%).

Assuming the character uses at least 30 times as much Fine ingredients as normal, this would reduce the cost of energy by a whopping 30% (1,754 energy total).

And of course you can reduce the cost further by adding a Dependency on a "phylactery." I'd add Dependency (phylactery; rare, Constantly) [-150], but remove both Dependency (Mana; common, constantly) [-50] and Fragile (Unnatural, Mitigated by potion, monthly, -70%) [-15]. This turns the template into 20 points and would reduce the time in example one to:

Self-Teaching: 1 year and 301 days.
Teacher: 334 days.
Intense Training: 125 days.

And the cost of example two's spells:

Ritual: 610 required energy
Potion: 625 required energy (438 energy if using Fine ingredients).
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!

Last edited by Christopher R. Rice; 10-11-2013 at 08:49 AM.
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 07:53 AM   #3
JP42
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Lich
Spell Effects: Greater Transform Body + Greater Transform Undead.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Traits, Alternate Form (Lich)
Greater Effects: 2 (x7).

This spell turns the subject into a lich (Magic, p. 160)! After the spell is cast, the subject (almost always the caster) must roll vs. HT. Success means he rises as a lich 2d days later. If he fails, he dies! there is no duration for this spell because the effects (turning you into a lich take place instantly)

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body (8) + Greater Transform Undead (8) + Altered Traits, Alternate Form (Lich) (476*) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3). 3,465 energy (495×7).

* Includes a extra cost equal to the cost of the template x 5 to assume it permanently and adds "Backlash, Instant Death, Resistible to Alternate Form" (-150%).
This is one of those times where, as the GM, if you wanted to make this really, *really* difficult to do with Ritual Path Magic, you'd insert a Control Magic or Create Crossroads effect or the like, I assume?

And I think we spend so much time focusing on the mechanics that we forget that such powerful enchantments should likely require some pretty significant trappings, regardless. I might go so far as to not just abstract the survival into a HT roll, but be more specific about having ancillary magic available that could keep you alive while you eviscerate yourself.
JP42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 08:00 AM   #4
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP42 View Post
This is one of those times where, as the GM, if you wanted to make this really, *really* difficult to do with Ritual Path Magic, you'd insert a Control Magic or Create Crossroads effect or the like, I assume?

And I think we spend so much time focusing on the mechanics that we forget that such powerful enchantments should likely require some pretty significant trappings, regardless. I might go so far as to not just abstract the survival into a HT roll, but be more specific about having ancillary magic available that could keep you alive while you eviscerate yourself.
Absolutely! Just require additional Greater Effects - for instance, you could need another Transform Body effect to "prepare" your body.

Keep in mind that this ritual is *powerful* and requires a ton of energy to pull off. Anyone attempting it are going to have to figure out a way to gather that much energy safely or create a powerful source that they can slowly pour energy into and then tap when it's done. Perhaps a spell analogous to the Cone of Power in Thaumatology.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 08:45 AM   #5
Humabout
 
Humabout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Isn't the greater effect multiplier x5 for two greaters? Or are you intentionally increasing it because this is a permanent effect?
__________________
Buy My Stuff!

Free Stuff:
Dungeon Action!
Totem Spirits

My Blog: Above the Flatline.
Humabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 08:47 AM   #6
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humabout View Post
Isn't the greater effect multiplier x5 for two greaters? Or are you intentionally increasing it because this is a permanent effect?
No, that's a bloody copy paste error! Fixed above. Thanks for the catch HB.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 08:56 AM   #7
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

I also want to point out that increasing the number of Greater effects without actually adding something to the spell doesn't work all that well. If you want to increase the cost of a given spell, just add more effects and justification, give bonuses, penalties, etc. Otherwise your players will eventually revolt and shout Vive la Revolution! into the hills.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 09:47 AM   #8
Humabout
 
Humabout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
No, that's a bloody copy paste error! Fixed above. Thanks for the catch HB.
No problem. I was afraid I missed something.

So would you use this method (quintupling the point cost of permanently added traits) for any ritual that permanently grants a subject a trait?
__________________
Buy My Stuff!

Free Stuff:
Dungeon Action!
Totem Spirits

My Blog: Above the Flatline.
Humabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 09:51 AM   #9
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humabout View Post
No problem. I was afraid I missed something.

So would you use this method (quintupling the point cost of permanently added traits) for any ritual that permanently grants a subject a trait?
I've done it in the past for such things as Wish spells, adding Unaging, etc. But as a GM, you have to keep your eye on it. Method 1 will almost never get out of hand since the character is sacrifice time for abilities. Method 2...method 2 can get ugly if a PC decides to abuse it. I'd beware of anyone adding 5 point traits a level at a time to their character.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 10:09 AM   #10
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Expanding RPM Enchantment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
I've done it in the past for such things as Wish spells, adding Unaging, etc. But as a GM, you have to keep your eye on it. Method 1 will almost never get out of hand since the character is sacrifice time for abilities. Method 2...method 2 can get ugly if a PC decides to abuse it. I'd beware of anyone adding 5 point traits a level at a time to their character.
Oh, I wouldn't allow anyone to add a trait a level at a time. If they're adding any traits, especially permanently, then they need to pay the cost for the final level. Otherwise, it's spell stacking.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enchantment, rpm

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.