Shotguns high skill and boomstick range

[Kale]

I've been playing in a Zombie themed game where one of the characters has a high skill (19) in shotgun. At moderate ranges he often makes his skill by 7 or 8, resulting in many pellet hits and lots of damage. At very short range the rules state that the shot doesn't spread out so is treated as a single 4d+4 attack (for 12 gauge). The problem is that this is actually much less damage than the high-skilled character usually gets at longer ranges when he's rolling to see how many pellets hit.
This seems broken to me and I was wondering if I was missing something or if anyone has any suggestions for a houserule or workaround?

[Anaraxes]

No doubt the gun experts will have a better answer, but I think you're overlooking the fact that you still get ROF 3 at point-blank range. It's just that each shot is resolved as 4d+4, kind of like one big slug, instead of the x9 ROF multiplier; all three hosts could still potentially hit for 12d+12 damage.

The rule seems to me to be more simply worded as "at less than 10% 1/2D, half the shots automatically hit together (and half miss)". 4x(1d+1 -3DR) is the same as 4d+4 -12DR, so there's really no difference in the damage despite the line "this increases lethality".

It might also be reasonable to treat this value (half the second number) as the maximum number of pellets that can hit at any range. So the 3x9 = ROF 27 attack could never score more than 12 hits, no matter how good the roll. (Or perhaps 13, rounding off half the total ROF, rather than each shot.) If the pattern only gets wider, it doesn't seem like you could ever do better than the point-blank result.

[Kale]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

...it doesn't seem like you could ever do better than the point-blank result.

What's bothering me is it breaks down for single shells and high skills. A PC making it by 7 (not actually too hard with the +2 for RoF from the 9 pellets) is quite possible. As a result the shotgun does its highest damage just outside of point-blank then gets limited to 4d+4 closer than this. Do you have any suggestions for a houserule other than limiting all hits to half the number of pellets at all ranges?

[weby]

Allow them to choose between taking half or rolling normally at close range.

[Cybrludite]

Originally Posted by Kale

What's bothering me is it breaks down for single shells and high skills. A PC making it by 7 (not actually too hard with the +2 for RoF from the 9 pellets) is quite possible. As a result the shotgun does its highest damage just outside of point-blank then gets limited to 4d+4 closer than this. Do you have any suggestions for a houserule other than limiting all hits to half the number of pellets at all ranges?

4d+4 Pi+, actually. With the pellets at range being Pi (or Pi- with ever worsening DR divisors, depending on the size of the shot). At range, you're hitting a wider variety of important bits instead of one important bit really hard, so doing more damage makes sense.

[Sam Baughn]

I'd just drop that close range shotgun rule. It doesn't add much to the game and it's more effort to remember than it's worth.

[SuedodeuS]

I'm not sure how much time this might add to combat, but a "best-case" option might work. Basically, use whichever method (close-range rule, or MoS) yields more damage. I'd recommend figuring out the cut-off point ahead of time (otherwise it likely will slow your combats down considerably).

The rule basically indicates that 4 of 9 pellets hit. So, use the rule as-is - but if you have a MoS of 3 or more, resolve the attack as though you weren't in close range (adding in the +2 for RoF 9, and hitting with a number of pellets equal to MoS).

If the damage is indeed upgraded to Pi+ (IDHMBWM), figuring out the cut-off point will be a little more trying. Pi+ has a damage multiplier of 1.5x if I'm not mistaken, so you have to score half again as many hits to average the same damage (assuming Pi). So cut-off is MoS 5+. I think Pi- has a damage multiplier of x.5, which means the close range rule causes it to deal more damage than is otherwise possible. Of course, recalculation will be necessary for cases where damage multipliers are different from normal, but you get the general idea.

EDIT: Armor generally doesn't result in any further complication, as the damage ratios stay the same. However, against heavier armor, cut-off could drop to MoS 3+ - simply because more hits means a better chance that at least one gets through. Unless you're rolling all dice at once and essentially averaging them for damage/hit (so 7d+7-[7xDR], rather than [1d+1-DR]x7, for 7 hits), in which case the above ratios remain the same.

[tanniynim]

I just want to know why your PC is wasting shotgun ammo on zombies... And he better be wearing a mask, because that's some serious splatter.

Give me an M1-Garand anyday in that situation.

Edit: Just to keep it on topic: If it's a 'realistic' zombie game (ala Romero), I wouldn't worry about shotgun damage anyway *unless* it's to the head or worth crippling a limb. At distant ranges, that doesn't usually mean much damage at all and at close ranges, you could easily take a head off with a slug. But why are you letting them get that close to begin with?

[Kaldrin]

Originally Posted by tanniynim

I just want to know why your PC is wasting shotgun ammo on zombies... And he better be wearing a mask, because that's some serious splatter.

Yup, it is. They've been covered in zombie goop several times now.

With regard to pellets versus large damage at close range, there's two factors. One is application of DR. The other is crippling injuries and massive damage.

Now, I'm pretty sure against, say a guy wearing a some body armour you'd do little damage with 1d+1 pellets, but you'd do quite a bit with a 4d+4 'boomstick' shot.

The main problem I see is how at very high skill with a shotgun is how you can hit one body location... unless we missed something in the rules for the shotgun. This means Father Jebediah and his skill of 19 can hit a leg with many pellets at range, doing more damage and definitely crippling the limb. At close range he actually winds up doing less damage overall against unarmoured foes.

Maybe the answer is to houserule a limit of pellets per body location based on how far it is away? The rest would obviously have to hit adjacent locations evenly divided.

[Kaldrin]

Originally Posted by tanniynim

But why are you letting them get that close to begin with?

Forgot to answer this one. There's a few reasons.

1. Zombies don't have radio locater beacons or blinking lights to let people know where they are at all times.
2. Sometimes the situation the PCs are in puts them in relatively close quarters (i.e. - abandoned houses, hospitals, and stores) where they've got less warning.
3. The outside world even is not flat and without terrain or other obstacles to hide the approach of relatively quiet zombies.
4. People, no matter how smart and well-trained they are, can get wrapped up in situations and fail to notice something.
5. Shotguns tend to be more menacing to other people, who might be a bigger threat in the situation.