Enhancement question: Area Effect (only to maintain)

CoyoteGestalt · 04-26-2012, 07:20 AM

Hi,folks. Looking for advice on building an ability. The Kinda Stereotypical Half-Fairy PC can shapeshift into a limited range of forms: wolf, raven, or housecat (maintaining human intelligence, etc. , so some of these templates may be a little pricey). This is pretty clearly a couple of Alternate Forms. The PC can make this transformation fairly quickly (a few seconds).

PC can also cause a willing, cooperating friend to change as well. This takes longer, and requires contact. (Affects Others limited with Takes Extra Time, I assume, using the optional Limited Enhancements rule. The new Power-Ups book notes that Affects Others is suitable for physical transformations, though it does not specifically list Alternate Form; still, this seems reasonable to me, as the intended outcome (two characters changing together) doesn't seem like it would make much sense as an Affliction.)
However, once the friend is changed, the change can be maintained without contact, provided they stay close by (2 or 3 yard radius, perhaps - cats and ravens aren't very big, so this would allow some freedom of movement).

Affects Others + Area Effect normally lets you initiate a change on a willing participant within the radius. Is there a canonical way to limit an Area Effect so that it only applies for maintaining the ability? Or should I just make up some kind of Accessibility limitation for it?

Or should I just dump this whole thing and just use Alternate Form and a beneficial Affliction?

CoyoteGestalt · 04-26-2012, 08:23 AM

For that matter, is there a way in general for an Alternate Form to take an enhancement or limitation that only applies to the act of changing?

(One possible effect of the ability under consideration: the PC can stay in any of the forms indefinitely, but the act of changing is draining - possibly Costs Fatigue, but also burns enough stored energy that it causes hunger, just like an extended period of hard labor, so that changing too many times a day (eg getting into a classic Shapeshifter's Duel) would lead to a need for extra food intake. Essentially, causes temporary Increased Consumption for a very brief period, so that only repeated use would lead to a significant long-term effect?
Or is this too trivial an effect to bother statting, and should just be left as a feature?)

roguebfl · 04-26-2012, 08:28 AM

Well "Reduced Time" will shorten the change time. if you use Cost Fatigue on the Reduced Time (Limiting enhancements) I would say the fatigue cost is on incurred when changing quickly, not just being in the form.

Bruno · 04-26-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteGestalt

For that matter, is there a way in general for an Alternate Form to take an enhancement or limitation that only applies to the act of changing?

EDIT: Hang on, I may be totally misremembering something, looking it up in POWERS right now.
EDIT: OK, I'm back.

Alternate Form is an Active, Switchable power, so Costs Fatigue specifically is the "costs every minute" version. Note that this is a special quality of Costs Fatigue, and is on my list of things that annoy me about CF.

Biotech adds Aftermath (page 215) which would give you a one time penalty after you finish using the ability, not when you turn it on.

Powers adds Backlash (page 104) which applies as you activate (not after you deactivate) but that's a condition like Attribute Penalty, Incapacitation, Irritant and Stunning.

CoyoteGestalt · 04-26-2012, 08:40 AM

The general question of limiting Alternate Form or Morph is something I've been confused on repeatedly - I keep thinking I understand it, then getting thrown by a counterexample (none of which I have with me at the moment, of course.) I'm hoping everybody else knows how this is supposed to work and it's just me.

Overall, though, my biggest question is how to get the maintain-only area effect (since otherwise, helping someone else change into a flying creature is pretty useless - they can't hold hand when they're birds).

roguebfl · 04-26-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteGestalt

Overall, though, my biggest question is how to get the maintain-only area effect (since otherwise, helping someone else change into a flying creature is pretty useless - they can't hold hand when they're birds).

That type of thing is what Beneficial Afflictions are for

Langy · 04-26-2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteGestalt

For that matter, is there a way in general for an Alternate Form to take an enhancement or limitation that only applies to the act of changing?

All limitations or enhancements on Alternate Form only apply during the act of changing.

roguebfl · 04-26-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langy

All limitations or enhancements on Alternate Form only apply during the act of changing.

Not quite, things like Max duration, affect how long you can stay in the form.

Langy · 04-26-2012, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Not quite, things like Max duration, affect how long you can stay in the form.

I believe Maximum/Minimum duration may be the only ones that impact like that, though. Everything else is about changing forms, up to and including things like 'Temporary Disadvantage' - you only suffer the disad during the changing, not whenever you're in the form (otherwise you'd just buy it as a disad on the template).

CoyoteGestalt · 04-26-2012, 09:02 AM

I know I could build this with a Beneficial Affliction, it just feels clunky and ungainly (tacking on Link and such so that it's "Afflict this condition, only while I'm also applying this condition to myself").
I've never really used Affects Others, so I'm trying to figure out if it's a better way to produce this effect (since it's pretty much described as a keep-the-party-together enhancement, which is basically what I'm looking for here.)

04-26-2012, 07:20 AM	#1
CoyoteGestalt Join Date: Jan 2009	Enhancement question: Area Effect (only to maintain) Hi,folks. Looking for advice on building an ability. The Kinda Stereotypical Half-Fairy PC can shapeshift into a limited range of forms: wolf, raven, or housecat (maintaining human intelligence, etc. , so some of these templates may be a little pricey). This is pretty clearly a couple of Alternate Forms. The PC can make this transformation fairly quickly (a few seconds). PC can also cause a willing, cooperating friend to change as well. This takes longer, and requires contact. (Affects Others limited with Takes Extra Time, I assume, using the optional Limited Enhancements rule. The new Power-Ups book notes that Affects Others is suitable for physical transformations, though it does not specifically list Alternate Form; still, this seems reasonable to me, as the intended outcome (two characters changing together) doesn't seem like it would make much sense as an Affliction.) However, once the friend is changed, the change can be maintained without contact, provided they stay close by (2 or 3 yard radius, perhaps - cats and ravens aren't very big, so this would allow some freedom of movement). Affects Others + Area Effect normally lets you initiate a change on a willing participant within the radius. Is there a canonical way to limit an Area Effect so that it only applies for maintaining the ability? Or should I just make up some kind of Accessibility limitation for it? Or should I just dump this whole thing and just use Alternate Form and a beneficial Affliction?

04-26-2012, 08:23 AM	#2
CoyoteGestalt Join Date: Jan 2009	Re: Enhancement question: Area Effect (only to maintain) For that matter, is there a way in general for an Alternate Form to take an enhancement or limitation that only applies to the act of changing? (One possible effect of the ability under consideration: the PC can stay in any of the forms indefinitely, but the act of changing is draining - possibly Costs Fatigue, but also burns enough stored energy that it causes hunger, just like an extended period of hard labor, so that changing too many times a day (eg getting into a classic Shapeshifter's Duel) would lead to a need for extra food intake. Essentially, causes temporary Increased Consumption for a very brief period, so that only repeated use would lead to a significant long-term effect? Or is this too trivial an effect to bother statting, and should just be left as a feature?)

04-26-2012, 08:28 AM	#3
roguebfl Dog of Lysdexics Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ	Re: Enhancement question: Area Effect (only to maintain) Well "Reduced Time" will shorten the change time. if you use Cost Fatigue on the Reduced Time (Limiting enhancements) I would say the fatigue cost is on incurred when changing quickly, not just being in the form. __________________ Rogue the Bronze Firelizard Gerald Grenier, Jr. Hail Eris! Rogue's Weyr

04-26-2012, 08:40 AM	#5
CoyoteGestalt Join Date: Jan 2009	Re: Enhancement question: Area Effect (only to maintain) The general question of limiting Alternate Form or Morph is something I've been confused on repeatedly - I keep thinking I understand it, then getting thrown by a counterexample (none of which I have with me at the moment, of course.) I'm hoping everybody else knows how this is supposed to work and it's just me. Overall, though, my biggest question is how to get the maintain-only area effect (since otherwise, helping someone else change into a flying creature is pretty useless - they can't hold hand when they're birds).

04-26-2012, 09:02 AM	#10
CoyoteGestalt Join Date: Jan 2009	Re: Enhancement question: Area Effect (only to maintain) I know I could build this with a Beneficial Affliction, it just feels clunky and ungainly (tacking on Link and such so that it's "Afflict this condition, only while I'm also applying this condition to myself"). I've never really used Affects Others, so I'm trying to figure out if it's a better way to produce this effect (since it's pretty much described as a keep-the-party-together enhancement, which is basically what I'm looking for here.)