Question about cutting a throat.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by sjard

<Moderator> Keep it civil here please. </Moderator>

To be completely fair, I did not notice anyone being uncivil. If anything, I saw long-time forum regulars exchanging friendly banter.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Apache

Posh. We all know that sneakery, throat-cutting, and other ninja-assassin skills are core curriculum in Icelandic law schools.

:)

Also....*sniffs*....I love these boards....:)

Elective! Elective!

I had the option of not taking them. Of course, I was aware that this meant that I was leaving my throat, at least metaphorically, open to those who did. :)

The Boy Scout leader who belonged to some odd special group who insisted on teaching us 20 mile daily runs and silent sentry removal happened to be one of the lawyers, come to think of it. ;)

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Elective! Elective!

I had the option of not taking them. Of course, I was aware that this meant that I was leaving my throat, at least metaphorically, open to those who did. :)

The Boy Scout leader who belonged to some odd special group who insisted on teaching us 20 mile daily runs and silent sentry removal . . .

I once thought about visiting Iceland.

Now I think I never will.

And if I meet any Icelander, I will be very, very polite.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

I once thought about visiting Iceland.

Now I think I never will.

And if I meet any Icelander, I will be very, very polite.

They did create EVE Online, you know.

:)

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by Xplo

How much noise do you think someone can make with a closed mouth, anyway? "Mmm hf nmf mm" doesn't usually carry very well.

Actually, in my experience, it's quite possible to vocalise quite loudly (if incoherently) with a closed mouth. Even a mouth stuffed with a gag and taped shut lets a significant amount of noise through the nose. I'd say that realisticallly you would probably need two hands to reduce someone to being unable to raise an alarm by squealing; one to hold the jaw closed and one to cover the nose and mouth.

[Apache]

Which is why you don't try and close the targets' mouth; you get your arm around his throat, lean back (to cut off the air) and then stab (with an upward thrust) your knife into the target's vitals. Then, as described above, you let shock and time do the rest. Usually takes about 5-10 seconds, tops.

Glad I read this thread, didn't know about the GURPS Fairbairn PDF.....:)

[DanHoward]

All you have to do is incapacitate them. This is what takes 5-10 secs. How long it takes for them to actually die is irrelevant in most operations. All you should care about is whether they can get back up to upset your plans. As has been said, actual death could take hours. But if they are unconscious for all of that time, then "instant kills" are irrelevant.

The only time you need to worry about whether they are actually dead or not is if you want to give them a chance of receiving medical attention in time to recover.

[oma]

Ahem. We have a whole book on this stuff.
Number 28 Use of the Knife: Judo Grapple/Face + Knife Thrust/Neck Arteries or Knife Thrust/Vitals. And I quote "The grapple serves to hold shut the target’s mouth." A Targeted Attack (Knife Swing/Neck) is treated as "cut the throat." It also notes that these can be "applied using All-out Attack (Double) or Rapid Strike " as well as Martial Arts combinations.

Ok, so for the slower of us, I can Use STEALTH to get up behind the guy. I have my large, super fine Knife out, and I do:

Rapid Strike, Combination, Targeted Attack, Telegraphic on each one since he won't get a defense.

Can I fit all those into one combination? Can I also add AoA determined for another +4? I am a little confused about how all these attack procedures stack
My PC has this ST12 DX 13 Combination Judo Grapple/Jaw-14+Reverse Grip Knife Thrust/Neck Artery-10 (for 1d+2 Imp) that includes the +1 for Reverse grip.

What is the best way to implement this in sentry removal?
In MA p109 it says:

Combinations
Martial artists can learn a class of multiple-attack techniques
called “Combinations” (p. 80). These constitute a
special case of Rapid Strike (p. B370), which makes them
compatible with All-Out Attack, Attack, Committed Attack,
and Defensive Attack, but not with Move and Attack. The
chosen maneuver modifies all applicable elements of the
Combination: All-Out Attack (Strong) gives +2 damage with
all strikes, Committed Attack (Determined) gives +2 to hit
with all attacks, and so on.

Any or all parts of a Combination can be Deceptive
Attacks (p. B369) or Telegraphic Attacks (p. 113). These
options modify the attack and defense rolls to resolve the
affected portion(s) of the technique only. A fighter can mix
and match; for instance, he could start a three-attack
Combination with a Deceptive Attack, follow with an
unmodified attack, and then finish with a Telegraphic
Attack.

On B.370 it says that Rapid strike may be used with Attack or AoA. So it would seem that I could do an AoA Determined, Rapid Strike (Combination) and make either/both of those attacks Telegraphic.

Is the below better than my Rapid Strike combo?

All-Out Grapple and Strike
Martial artists and brawlers often grab opponents and
pull them into thrusting attacks. Such strikes are powerful
and hard to avoid. Examples include yanking a head
into a Knee Strike (famous in Bando and Muay Thai),
throwing an Uppercut in a clinch (illegal but common in
Boxing), and pulling someone onto a knife. The perks
Clinch (p. 51) and Neck Control (p. 50) are handy here!
This is an All-Out Attack (Double). Use the first attack
to grapple your rival. If it works, he’ll suffer the standard
defense penalties against the ensuing strike; see Defense
While Grappling (pp. 121-122).
Your second attack can be a strike with anything
except the arm(s) used to grapple. This is a close-combat
attack. If you use a weapon longer than reach C, see Long
Weapons in Close Combat (p. 117).
If the grapple works and you hit the grappled location
with a thrusting attack, your strike gets the damage bonus
for All-Out Attack (Strong). This also applies to blows to
the groin, spine, or vitals if grappling the torso; the eye,
jaw, or nose if grappling the head; or an artery or joint if
grappling a location containing such a target. You may
retain your grapple after striking or relinquish it
immediately.

Also, in MA p 116 it says

The Sound of One Hand Grappling
Most grappling techniques in Chapter 3 “require” two
hands. In reality, there are one-handed variants of Arm Lock,
Choke Hold, Head Lock, Leg Lock, Neck Snap, and Wrench
Limb (but not Backbreaker, Piledriver, or Wrench Spine).
DX-based rolls to initiate such moves are at -2, or at -4 if
using the crook of one arm because the hand isn’t free.

Does this mean I should add an EXTRA -2 when I go for my Judo Grapple Jaw since my other hand is using the knife?

[oma]

After reading MA p.113 it seems to imply that Telegraphic can NOT be used with AoA, but I'm not sure.

Use this option when you must attack at a penalty but All-
Out Attack (Determined) or Committed Attack (Determined)
would be too risky

But on MA p 109 it says,

These options apply only in melee combat. Most specifically
affect unarmed or melee weapon attacks made as part
of an All-Out Attack, Attack, Committed Attack, Defensive
Attack, or Move and Attack maneuver, or feints made during
these maneuvers or a Feint maneuver.

So that seems to say, since Telegraphic attack Melee Attack Option, it WOULD be compatible with AoA Determined.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by oma

After reading MA p.113 it seems to imply that Telegraphic can NOT be used with AoA, but I'm not sure.



But on MA p 109 it says,



So that seems to say, since Telegraphic attack Melee Attack Option, it WOULD be compatible with AoA Determined.

P113 is just giving advice. If it could not be combined with AoA it would explicitly say so, like it does with DA and riposte (in fact it specifically says it combines with *all* other combat options). I think there's another book that advises using them together when the enemy can't defend.