05-09-2013, 02:18 AM | #241 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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You want that feel you got to GM the same way |
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05-09-2013, 02:23 AM | #242 | ||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
He's slower than the Flash.
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05-09-2013, 02:31 AM | #243 | |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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I don't know if you could stop Superman with pepper spray or if off-the-shelf AP rounds hurt him, or if he can't see through a cloud from a fire extinguisher. Maybe that stuff works against modern Superman, but that's not the way I've ever thought of him and he has been significantly depowered if that's the case.
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"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog. |
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05-09-2013, 02:38 AM | #244 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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I think this is straying into a pointless (heh) tangent here though. The same stuff is true even of lesser paragons on more balanced teams. Traditional bricks don't make sense outside of their oeuvre. It won't matter if you make the ability to lift an Aircraft Carrier or DR 100 cost 1 CP if trying to lift an Aircraft Carrier just breaks it and everybody just attacks you in ways that either penetrate your armor or to which it's irrelevant. |
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05-09-2013, 06:48 AM | #245 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
Point of order: Superman was given vulnerability to Kryptonite, Magic, and Red Solar Radiation specifically so that it would be possible to threaten him with physical violence without resorting to equally powerful enemies all the time.
Ultimately though, I can't think of a single point-accounting game system capable of handling the Justice League that assigns the same or even similar point totals to every member of the League. Invariably, the likes of Superman and Green Lantern are built on massive point totals while the likes of Batman and Green Arrow aren't. And yet Superman/Batman and Green Lantern/Green Arrow teamups are the stuff of legend. The idea that two characters built on the same point total are going to be balanced against each other is a myth, because in actual gameplay "balance" isn't about point totals. It isn't even about niches, though that comes closer to the mark: as soon as player B is better at one thing than player A is, it's possible to balance the two, even if player A is built on 1000 points and player B has a net point total of zero (though you do need to watch out for "wizarding the fighter" in these cases). Want to take the point further? Let's not look at the Justice League; let's look at Superman and his supporting cast. There was a moderately successful TV series a few years back called "Lois and Clark", featuring a teamup of ace journalist Lois Lane and mild-mannered alter ego of superhuman powerhouse Clark Kent. Despite the massive disparity in raw power between the two characters, Lois managed to hold her own in the series. In fact, she got top billing in the title not just as a riff off of "Louis and Clark", but also because she was the senior partner of the duo and Clark was often struggling to keep up with her, despite the aforementioned power differential. How did it work? By making the bulk of the challenges they faced not be things that could be resolved through brute force. Smallville is another example of this, as exemplified by the Smallville RPG (now sadly out of print due to the end of the licensing agreement, but proof positive that a game doesn't die when it goes out of print). As the RPG very ably illustrated, the primary conflicts of the show were more drama-oriented than action-oriented: tests of values and of relationships took the foreground, while superpowers were barely more than flavor. Again, the bulk of the conflicts were ones that couldn't be solved by brute force; and in the arena of teen and then young adult drama that dominated the show, Clark was on a level playing field with everyone else. When challenges of raw power came up, he did tend to dominate; but such challenges were rare enough that his tremendous advantage in the physical arena didn't let him run roughshod over the rest of the cast. Tremendous power means nothing if you're not in a position to use it, or when the important question isn't about what you can do but rather what you should do. Point balance is a myth. The idea that you can achieve game balance through point accounting is a trap that distracts from what truly is important to game balance: the gaming group's social contract. If the players and GM aren't on the same page, no game system will solve their problems; if they are on the same page, even the most flawed game system can be made to work. Last edited by dataweaver; 09-10-2013 at 12:24 PM. |
05-09-2013, 07:56 AM | #246 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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They probably have DR as well but the IT:DR is a staple of the heroes and makes them more fun.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
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05-09-2013, 08:51 AM | #247 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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So, the 'brick' character finds that more and more bad guys are pulling out weapons able to breach their defenses, or attacks that don't directly target their strength but serve to blind, distract, slow down, etc. Rather than try to get through with thud and blunder, why not be clever themselves? Unless they've got Cannot Wear Armor, layer the best ballistic armor over their innate DR; if they're high ST, it's not like they can't carry it. Tear the shovel off a bulldozer or pry up a manhole cover and use it as a shield; topple stacks of pallets serving you as cover on top of them. Sneak in rather than announce yourself. There are all kinds of ways to play it smart. |
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05-09-2013, 08:55 AM | #248 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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I don't think there's any argument that GURPS has Rule 0 and GMs can change the costs of things. The question is how much, if at all, does one have to change the cost of things like ST and DR to make bricks and archetypes really viable as compared to speedsters and psis at the same point levels. There's a lot of debate on that, one possible answer is presented with Super-Effort ST in GURPS Supers, but in at least one GM's opinion, it's definitely an issue. |
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05-09-2013, 09:00 AM | #249 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
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05-09-2013, 09:03 AM | #250 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Advantages Are Not Utility Priced
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