GURPS combat with all the GURPS Martial Arts trimmings?

[AllenOwen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh5t...149ZVBPfFjRdro

I thought it looked cool, so I thought I'd share..

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh5t...149ZVBPfFjRdro

I thought it looked cool, so I thought I'd share..

GURPS combat, with all the GURPS Martial Arts trimmings, doesn't tend to look like this since most PC's don't want to bleed out or die of an infected wound or be permanently crippled in a variety of ways. With all the trimmings GURPS combat can be summed up with: "Ambush is murder and murder is fun!" Attack your enemies from stealth, when they aren't expecting it, when you outnumber them, from a distance, preferably while they're asleep!

[Gigermann]

I would still very much like to see a GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Swordplay going into full, unadulterated detail on the big fighting treatises and HEMA stuff. There are elements that current GURPS rules don't quite cover without modification.

[AllenOwen]

Yes. For example, we have Defensive Grip, which can be half-swording but I don't know another way to have a mordhau other than saying "use Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill for the mordhau" for Longsword Fighting.

[Gigermann]

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

Yes. For example, we have Defensive Grip, which can be half-swording but I don't know another way to have a mordhau other than saying "use Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill for the mordhau" for Longsword Fighting.

2HA/M works well enough, I suppose. One could make the case for using a default from Broadsword for that, as well. But the real issue with the mordhau in GURPS is "why do it at all?"

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

Yes. For example, we have Defensive Grip, which can be half-swording but I don't know another way to have a mordhau other than saying "use Two-Handed Axe/Mace for the mordhau" for Longsword Fighting.

I was going to say I would make that a technique for Two-Handed Sword skill, but then I started going through Martial Arts and read up on the hook technique which kinda calls this out and says "...Some
swordfighting schools even taught (gauntleted!) fighters to
grab their weapon by the blade and hook with the pommel
and crosspiece. Swords wielded this way use the Axe/Mace
or Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill, and are unbalanced..."

So I would allow it, but I would still make a technique:

Mordhau
Hard
Default: Two-handed sword+0, cannot exceed Two-Handed sword.

Take a ready maneuver (+1) to grip the sword by the blade, a successful fast draw roll lets you do this as a free action, failure means you drop the weapon, critical failure means you cut yourself and drop it! once you have it properly gripped you can strike with the cross guard or pummel as if it was a club. The weapon is considered unbalanced with this usage. Damage is at +2 or +1 per die, which ever is better (-2). The weapon also becomes unready after each attack. A critical failure means you injure yourself. If your opponent parries or blocks your attack make a DX or ST based skill roll with a penalty equal to your opponents margin of success on their defense, failure means your hands are cut (+1).


There are so many drawbacks and not that many benefits, except for the fact that in real life it is very useful, especially against armored foes. Oh well. That is the way GURPS plays... Now I am tempted to try my hand at writing Technical Fencing...

[AllenOwen]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

I was going to say I would make that a technique for Two-Handed Sword skill, but then I started going through Martial Arts and read up on the hook technique which kinda calls this out and says "...Some
swordfighting schools even taught (gauntleted!) fighters to
grab their weapon by the blade and hook with the pommel
and crosspiece. Swords wielded this way use the Axe/Mace
or Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill, and are unbalanced..."

So I would allow it, but I would still make a technique:

Mordhau
Hard
Default: Two-handed sword+0, cannot exceed Two-Handed sword.

Take a ready maneuver (+1) to grip the sword by the blade, a successful fast draw roll lets you do this as a free action, failure means you drop the weapon, critical failure means you cut yourself and drop it! once you have it properly gripped you can strike with the cross guard or pummel as if it was a club. The weapon is considered unbalanced with this usage. Damage is at +2 or +1 per die, which ever is better (-2). The weapon also becomes unready after each attack. A critical failure means you injure yourself. If your opponent parries or blocks your attack make a DX or ST based skill roll with a penalty equal to your opponents margin of success on their defense, failure means your hands are cut (+1).


There are so many drawbacks and not that many benefits, except for the fact that in real life it is very useful, especially against armored foes. Oh well. That is the way GURPS plays... Now I am tempted to try my hand at writing Technical Fencing...

I'd buy it!

[namada]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

/GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Swordplay

The two obviously missing things are offensive/neutral/defensive stances, and elevation of offense/defense. Miyamoto Musashi was notorious for adopting a neutral stance against his enemies so as to antagonize them, by making them think he was acting like they were inferior to him, when he actually was just trying to goad them into making a mistake because he suspected he couldn't beat them otherwise. Elevation, on the other hand is even more obvious because, well, if you defend high and I attack low, guess what...?

Both could easily be included in such a volume and I found them to be fun additions to The Riddle of Steel, back when I played that. I have and sometimes used such rules I've created for GURPS, but like so many things I've done with GURPS over the past 30 years, haven't published them anywhere. I'd go so far as to say it's useful for all Low-Tech Melee, not just swordplay.

[AllenOwen]

Originally Posted by namada

The two obviously missing things are offensive/neutral/defensive stances, and elevation of offense/defense. Miyamoto Musashi was notorious for adopting a neutral stance against his enemies so as to antagonize them, by making them think he was acting like they were inferior to him, when he actually was just trying to goad them into making a mistake because he suspected he couldn't beat them otherwise. Elevation, on the other hand is even more obvious because, well, if you defend high and I attack low, guess what...?

Both could easily be included in such a volume and I found them to be fun additions to The Riddle of Steel, back when I played that. I have and sometimes used such rules I've created for GURPS, but like so many things I've done with GURPS over the past 30 years, haven't published them anywhere. I'd go so far as to say it's useful for all Low-Tech Melee, not just swordplay.

Do you still have them?

[phayman53]

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

Yes. For example, we have Defensive Grip, which can be half-swording but I don't know another way to have a mordhau other than saying "use Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill for the mordhau" for Longsword Fighting.

A while back I posted a question specifically about the mordhau and using the Skill Adaption perk. The answer from one of the devs was that the Perk "Skill Adaption: Two-Handed Axe/Mace defaults to Two-Handed Sword for blade griped strikes with the pommel" was a legitimate way to handle training some Longsword systems had to deliver a mordhau.

Originally Posted by Gigermann

2HA/M works well enough, I suppose. One could make the case for using a default from Broadsword for that, as well. But the real issue with the mordhau in GURPS is "why do it at all?"

It really is only useful if you adopt a house rule where balanced edged weapons work less well against armor. I personally give balanced edge weapons an armor divisor of (.5) and use the LT "Edged Weapons Do Crushing Damage" rules, but extend it to both cutting and impaling attacks. I think it approaches solving some of the realism problems of GURPS armor values, but I know others disagree. This makes things like a mordhau very useful if you are using a Longsword because it changes the damage to cr.