Powerstones, value, and extreme circumstances

[Whitewings]

I'm in the very earliest stages of a campaign based around the rise of the walking dead, and a question has occurred to me: In setting in which current civilization has collapsed, but a new one hasn't arisen (scattered small enclaves, yes, but a civilization, no), how do you evaluate the worth of a thing as a potential powerstone? I can't even begin to come up with a framework. The things most valued tend to be unsuitable, as they are generally consumable; I have difficulty with the concept of a powerstone can of soup :)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

I'm in the very earliest stages of a campaign based around the rise of the walking dead, and a question has occurred to me: In setting in which current civilization has collapsed, but a new one hasn't arisen (scattered small enclaves, yes, but a civilization, no), how do you evaluate the worth of a thing as a potential powerstone? I can't even begin to come up with a framework. The things most valued tend to be unsuitable, as they are generally consumable; I have difficulty with the concept of a powerstone can of soup :)

Settings of such extreme character toss the Wealth rules onto their heads. A gun can be literally priceless and simple survival goods can be worth far more than any book price yet you still have to decide whether the PCs can have these things before play starts.

I say don't sweat it. PCs only use Starting Wealth once and it could very easily represent what they had _before_ the Apocalypse and how would you regulate _that_?

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I say don't sweat it. PCs only use Starting Wealth once and it could very easily represent what they had _before_ the Apocalypse and how would you regulate _that_?

Well, the character who might be attempting to create a Powerstone will be doing so during the inter-societal period, which is why I'm wondering how to value potential subjects.

[Anaraxes]

What do you want magic items to be like in this setting?

The standard rule is an attempt to justify the usual fantasy trope that magic items are rare and precious. Given that some rare and highly trained experts will be slaving away on the enchantments for perhaps years, you might as well start with the best mundane materials and craftmanship you can. It doesn't add that much to the final price in this case. And magic items are traditionally made with rare and exotic materials, encrusted with gems, worthy to be ancient heirlooms and treasures. The $ price is a proxy for these features.

The charms in Monster Hunter's RPM are the exact opposite. The usual method for invoking them is to break them. These magic items are disposable, and you want them to be fragile as well as made from something inexpensive.

Perhaps in a post-apoc future, you want tech artifacts to be valuable. So, you invent the rule that mana is stored in pockets in a crystal lattice, ideally a silicon semiconductor. The magical capacity of an object is proportional to the number of transistors in the integrated components. Note that the object doesn't have to be functional to be enchanted do to something else (and in fact working tech objects might be more valuable for their original function). For that matter, you could pry all the black plastic rectangles from the boards and string them into necklaces (whether or not with interspersed jewels is up to you). But these objects don't have a $ price to be manufactured new; that's impossible in the setting. Demand for the magical capability and scarcity would let you set any price you like.

So, you tell us. Should the PCs be able to have a Powerstone as easily as picking up a rock? Risky and grisly as one power point per 100 ml vial of powdered zombie brain? If the base component is scarce and there are lots of mages, the barter price will rise. But since there's no economy, there's no "typical" price for any object, magical or otherwise, to use as a simple proxy for Powerstone-worthiness.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

Well, the character who might be attempting to create a Powerstone will be doing so during the inter-societal period, which is why I'm wondering how to value potential subjects.

Take the published price in G$ and use that. Don't over-complicate it.

Alternatively, acknowledge that any object can be used as a powerstone (as per the published rules) and simply rule that you don't get an energy discount for using an object with intrinsic value. Solves the whole problem.

[Stripe]

Say you have a ruby with a $500 price tag on it. Then, you get the seller to come down to $400. Can that ruby now not store as much mana? By haggling with the merchant, did it lose magical storage potential?

After you buy the ruby, someone strikes the mother load of rubies and the bottom falls out of the ruby market. Now, do rubies all of a sudden hold less magic across the land for some reason?

As an example of the wacky results of basing magical properties off monetary values, see Order of the Stick #677:

Young mage: "Master, I talked the merchant down to only 400 gp for the rubies!"

Old wizard: "Great, but the spell calls for 500 gp worth, so go back and buy more."

It makes no sense.

Just use the fair market value as listed in the books. It should remain constant with GURPS dollars and never change based on the economy, in my opinion.

[Whitewings]

I'm not the GM. We haven't even established in character (or out of it, for that matter) that magic might even be possible. All of this is speculative, I'm just looking for something in which to ground the speculation. My character is of a mystical bent, and once she accepts the reality of the risen dead, will likely try to work magic, basing it on such traditions as Celtic bards, Nordic rune-singers, and Icelandic waerlogrs, whose very name means "weird songs." She's an extremely capable and well-educated musician.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

I'm not the GM. We haven't even established in character (or out of it, for that matter) that magic might even be possible. All of this is speculative, I'm just looking for something in which to ground the speculation. My character is of a mystical bent, and once she accepts the reality of the risen dead, will likely try to work magic, basing it on such traditions as Celtic bards, Nordic rune-singers, and Icelandic waerlogrs, whose very name means "weird songs."

Ah. In which case I go, "Does your GM hold an economics degree, subscribe to the intrinsic theory of value and display an interest in working out the complexities thereof in its' post-apocalyptic game about the walking dead?" Intrinsic value is an axiom of the GURPS Magic system. If you even think to ask "Well, what if the price changes due to demand or negotiation?" then you're going to have a bad time.

[Anthony]

The value requirement on powerstones is really for GMs -- it's not that any valuable thing can be made into a powerstone, it's that a valuable thing that can be made into a powerstone should have a minimum value of P*40+P^2*10.

[Mathulhu]

In my very first GURPS game, I remember that one fondly we started at 100 points and ended at 1000, this cropped up.

The GM said "you have found a gem suitable for storing X power points in" he looked up how much it was worth and they we started haggling. What's the problem with doing it that way?