Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-12-2017, 03:50 PM   #1
MIB.6361
 
MIB.6361's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Infinity.
Default Jet Spell cost question

THIS HAS BEEN RESOLVED. PLEASE SEE MY POST BELOW.

I searched to see if this had been discussed before, but "jet" is too common and I didn't find anything.

Magic combat is already costly and less efficient than mundane combat, but it seems like jet spells penalize the wizard unduly.

For example:
Turn 1: Cast Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Maintain Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Attack with Flame Jet.

So before you can USE the jet spell, you have to pay for it twice? Am I missing something?
__________________
Jessie/MIB 6361
Arizona Men in Black Cell Leader

Last edited by MIB.6361; 09-14-2017 at 01:47 PM. Reason: wee lil boots
MIB.6361 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:02 PM   #2
JaJacob
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

I don't use vanilla magic that often, but if my memory serves right it is meant that you attack as you would with regular missile spell. The choice to maintain it skips the roll you would have to take to recast it. So you just pay the cost again without any roll

Edit for clarity:

Turn 1 cast jet
Turn 2 attack
Turn 3 maintain jet for same cost (as a free action), so you can chose to attack again.

The way I imagine it is basically a short beam you can keep going as long as you jeep pumping energy into it.

Last edited by JaJacob; 09-12-2017 at 04:05 PM.
JaJacob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:09 PM   #3
Kelly Pedersen
 
Kelly Pedersen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB.6361 View Post

For example:
Turn 1: Cast Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Maintain Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Attack with Flame Jet.

So before you can USE the jet spell, you have to pay for it twice? Am I missing something?
Yes, I think you're misreading how casting a jet spell generally goes. Jets are Regular spells. That means, you cast it, and you can immediately attack with it. There's no business of "Turn 1, cast and put in energy, Turn 2, either throw it or charge it further" the way there is with Missile spells. So jet spells are actually faster to cast than missiles, with comparable prices damage-wise. Their drawbacks are that a) they're expensive to maintain and hold "at the ready", and b) they're more limited in range than missiles.
Kelly Pedersen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:37 PM   #4
MIB.6361
 
MIB.6361's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Infinity.
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Yes, I think you're misreading how casting a jet spell generally goes. Jets are Regular spells. That means, you cast it, and you can immediately attack with it. There's no business of "Turn 1, cast and put in energy, Turn 2, either throw it or charge it further" the way there is with Missile spells. So jet spells are actually faster to cast than missiles, with comparable prices damage-wise. Their drawbacks are that a) they're expensive to maintain and hold "at the ready", and b) they're more limited in range than missiles.
The way you describe it definitely works better than how I'm reading it.

However, Regular spells, unless otherwise specified, take 1 second to cast. That's your entire turn spend concentrating to make it happen. During that 1 second you can't also attack. Under time to cast it specifically says "your turn ends as soon as you roll the dice" in relation to casting time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaJacob View Post
Edit for clarity:
Turn 1 cast jet
Turn 2 attack
Turn 3 maintain jet for same cost (as a free action), so you can chose to attack again.
Doing it this way means you get the spell for free on turn 2. That's something I've considered doing but it isn't consistent with how the rest of magic and maintenance cost works.
__________________
Jessie/MIB 6361
Arizona Men in Black Cell Leader

Last edited by MIB.6361; 09-12-2017 at 04:40 PM. Reason: how
MIB.6361 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:46 PM   #5
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB.6361 View Post
For example:
Turn 1: Cast Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Maintain Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Attack with Flame Jet.

So before you can USE the jet spell, you have to pay for it twice? Am I missing something?
There is some confusion in wording because spells changed from taking effect at the beginning of the turn after you cast it (3e) to the end of the turn you cast it (4e). But in either case no, you cast it, pay the cost, and then get to use it before the maintenance cost comes due, it's just in 3e it comes due the start of your turn, and 4e at the end. So 3e:

Turn 1, Cast spell, turn ends
Turn 2, Roll for spell skill, Pay 2 FP, jet forms, attack, turn ends.
Turn 3, Pay 2 FP to keep the spell going if you want....

4e:
Turn 1: Cast spell, Roll for spell skill, Spend 2 FP, jet forms, turn ends.
Turn 2: Attack something, pay 2 FP to keep the spell going if you want, turn ends.

Same sequence, differs only in where you insert the two "turn ends" dividers.

I suppose if you could parry with the jet and only paid the cost for 1 turn, the interval you could do that would have shifted from after your 2nd turn to after your first turn going from 3e to 4e (i.e. from after you could attack to before), but most jets can't parry anyway.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:56 PM   #6
Gnomasz
 
Gnomasz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Poland
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

I'm with malloyd here: you cast the spell (Concentrate) and pay for it, then Attack with it (or All-Out-Attack, or Move-and-Attack) on turn 2 and choose if you want to maintain it for turn 3.
__________________
My irregular blog: d8 hit location table
Gnomasz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 10:28 AM   #7
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
4e:
Turn 1: Cast spell, Roll for spell skill, Spend 2 FP, jet forms, turn ends.
Turn 2: Attack something, pay 2 FP to keep the spell going if you want, turn ends.
This is how my group has played it. But I think a house rule allowing you to attack the turn you cast a jet would be appropriate.
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 10:45 AM   #8
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
This is how my group has played it. But I think a house rule allowing you to attack the turn you cast a jet would be appropriate.
I would go with a style perk. It’s basically allowing Fast-Draw for Jets.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-13-2017 at 04:31 PM.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 01:42 PM   #9
MIB.6361
 
MIB.6361's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Infinity.
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

OK! After discussion with my friendly neighborhood rules lawyer, I realize what was missing from my view of this. The first turn is spent casting, but does NOT count as the duration of the spell.

Turn 1: Cast spell, pay FP, Flame Jet erupts from your hand. Spell will NOW last for 1 second.

Turn 2: Attack with Jet. 1 second duration ends, decide to pay FP to maintain.


I knew it couldn't be the wonky double cost situation I thought it was.

Thank you all for being party to this discussion.
__________________
Jessie/MIB 6361
Arizona Men in Black Cell Leader
MIB.6361 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 04:21 PM   #10
Edges
 
Edges's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GMT-5
Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Yes, I think you're misreading how casting a jet spell generally goes. Jets are Regular spells. That means, you cast it, and you can immediately attack with it. There's no business of "Turn 1, cast and put in energy, Turn 2, either throw it or charge it further" the way there is with Missile spells. So jet spells are actually faster to cast than missiles, with comparable prices damage-wise. Their drawbacks are that a) they're expensive to maintain and hold "at the ready", and b) they're more limited in range than missiles.
We've always interpreted it like this too.
Edges is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gurps, innate attack, jet, magic

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.