Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-07-2019, 10:43 PM   #1
GWJ
 
GWJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

Which are allowed? I thought Rapid and Deceptive Strike are just for melee attacks - but in the Weapon Master Description there is

Quote:
Halve the penalty for a Rapid Strike in melee combat; see Rapid Strike (Exploits, p. 38). If you also have Heroic Archer, reduce the rapid-shooting penalty from -3 to -1
I didn't even knew there IS something like rapid-shooting :O Where can I find it (I really can't...), ane if there is something similar to Deceptive Strike for ranged combat? Dodging enemies are real pain in the eye
GWJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 07:57 AM   #2
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

The "rapid-shooting penalty" is just referring to the Heroic Archer ability to ready the bow in no time. Normally this is at a -3 penalty (both to ready it and on the subsequent attack), but with Weapon Master, this penalty drops to -1. Here's the corresponding text from Heroic Archer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventurers, p. 35
On your next turn, make a Bow roll at -3 to ready your bow in no time. Failure means you can only ready; success lets you attack at -3 on the same turn. Both penalties are just -1 if you also have Weapon Master (Bow).
Other than that, DFPRG doesn't have any version of Rapid Strike or Deceptive Attack for ranged attacks. If you'd like more options here, you could look at the ranged attack options from GURPS Martial Arts (pp. 119-121) and adopt one or more as house rules. For example, the Prediction Shots (p. 121) option is a ranged version of Deceptive Attack.
Dalin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 02:47 PM   #3
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

You can also Feint with a Bow, or at least I see no reason why you can't just allow that with DFRPG rules
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 04:49 PM   #4
Juliansl
 
Juliansl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

You can't Feint with a bow (unless using it as a club) as Feints are restricted to melee attacks (Exploits p30).
Juliansl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 07:35 PM   #5
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliansl View Post
You can't Feint with a bow (unless using it as a club) as Feints are restricted to melee attacks (Exploits p30).
That's a bit unsatisfying, as you can feint with, say, a thrown weapon. Just think back to schoolyard dodgeball; feinting is definitely a part of play.

But you're right that "melee only" is the rule. I could see house-ruling that away, perhaps even with something a bit nuanced, like this: Ranged feints are possible, but take a Range penalty. That would make a feint pretty meaningless with that long-distance bow shot, but still valid for a short-range shot or knife throw.

For the GM who wants to keep things simple, though, RAW "melee only" sounds fine!
__________________
T Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com

Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated)

(Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 08:35 PM   #6
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone View Post
That's a bit unsatisfying, as you can feint with, say, a thrown weapon. Just think back to schoolyard dodgeball; feinting is definitely a part of play.

But you're right that "melee only" is the rule. I could see house-ruling that away, perhaps even with something a bit nuanced, like this: Ranged feints are possible, but take a Range penalty. That would make a feint pretty meaningless with that long-distance bow shot, but still valid for a short-range shot or knife throw.

For the GM who wants to keep things simple, though, RAW "melee only" sounds fine!
Whats wrong with using Deceptive Attack as Kromm mentioned earlier?
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 08:36 PM   #7
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Whats wrong with using Deceptive Attack as Kromm mentioned earlier?
Nothing wrong with it that I know of!
__________________
T Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com

Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated)

(Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 01:25 AM   #8
finn
 
finn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

This thread has been very helpful. The scout on my group has always wanted to use deceptive attack, and I just informed him that he can use the rules of "Prediction Shots" from Martial Arts.

I was thinking of charging a perk for introducing Deceptive Attack to ranged weapons, but since Prediction Shots is relatively limited, I decided that it will be free (for anyone with Heroic Archer).
finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 07:01 PM   #9
InexplicableVic
 
InexplicableVic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

Peter Dell’Orto (author of GURPS Martial Arts) allows anyone to use a predictive shot in his Felltower Campaign.
InexplicableVic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 11:47 AM   #10
ArchonShiva
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Ranged Combat and Rapid/Deceptive Strike

It really depends how exploitative your players are. I’ve played a lot of DFRPG templates by now in combat-heavy games, and outside of a high-points wizard ripping at the threads of creation, nothing comes close to a scout in my hands for both all-around usefulness, hoarding screen time and sheer all-purpose slaying capacity.

Lack of ranged Rapid Strike, Deceptive Attack and bow feints is what keeps me from completely upstaging the entire party.

On the other hand, a GM may well allow both and never notice anything wrong. GURPS bow combat can be a tricky beast.
__________________
Per-based Stealth isn’t remotely as awkward as DX-based Observation.
ArchonShiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.