Kromm's list of skills every adventurer ought to have - Page 5

Lord Carnifex · 01-22-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molokh

That's part of the reason why I'm troubled about such a requirement. I'm not quite happy to see PCs trained as a paramilitary black ops team, unless they really are one. Based on character concepts and backgrounds, they usually aren't.

You don't necessarily have to go to the point of "paramilitary black-ops team" to have a basic background in a lot of these basic skills. Look at FBI Special Agent Fox Mulder, Ph.D and FBI Special Agent Dana Scully, M.D. of The X-Files. Neither one is special-ops, neither is a combat monster, both tend to use brains over force. Still, both have firearms training, being FBI agents. Due to physical training requirements [or that's the justification that can be made], both have a point or two of Running and Hiking. Dealing with investigations and suspects has given both some degree of social skills.

Kromm · 01-22-2010, 04:49 PM

And then there's the whole issue of why the PC with the best combination of charisma, intelligence, and motivation – doubtless destined to become the party's de facto face and coordinator, if not its leader – would tolerate a crew of bickering incompetents. You could say, "That's what he had to work with" . . . but it's just as valid to say, "These are the people he selected from among the available candidates." Even in a group that lacks leadership and that coordinates spontaneously, it's fair to say, "Yeah, there were other people before, but we're the ones who stuck together."

It often isn't a good idea to game out the party's formation and recruitment process. Frequently, it's better for the players to plan the PC party collectively and agree to an off-screen "origin story," and then to start the campaign with the PCs' first adventure together – the shakedown cruise, as it were. You'll note that in most caper movies with ensemble casts, the whole recruitment process is a montage that gets comparatively little time before the plot starts; e.g., The Italian Job or Ocean's Eleven. In stories that do focus on group-building, there's inevitably a stick beating people into a team; e.g., Full Metal Jacket or The Dirty Dozen. Unstructured recruitment resulting in a flawed, uncoordinated team is a trope of slapstick, not adventure.

The stick approach is mainly military, and could justifiably be criticized as inappropriate for nonmilitary teams. However, the montage approach is entirely valid for all adventuring parties, from random fantasy heroes met at the tavern to modern-day crooks. Old-school fantasy games could chuck together random adventurers at the tavern chiefly because they had character classes to ensure certain niches were filled and protected . . . and you can be damned sure that back in the 1970s and 80s, gamers did a lot of "I'll be the cleric!" and "I want to play the thief!" before the tavern scene ever started.

DouglasCole · 01-22-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

. . . and you can be damned sure that back in the 1970s and 80s, gamers did a lot of "I'll be the cleric!"

Well, if my old DnD games are indicative, no one actually wanted to be the Cleric. :-)

Phaelen Bleux · 01-22-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Well, if my old DnD games are indicative, no one actually wanted to be the Cleric. :-)

Absolutely!!! And finally, when we switched to GURPS, the beauty was that every mage or fighter or thief was a 1-point cleric. The mage takes Minor Heal, the others take First Aid, and huzzah, no one has to play a cleric.

Which plays right back into the OP, more or less--there are certain elemental skills that ought to be represented in every "Adventurer."

Rocket Man · 01-22-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Well, if my old DnD games are indicative, no one actually wanted to be the Cleric. :-)

LOL -- granted, though I was one of the exceptions. As much as I loved Magic-Users (and often played them), the Cleric had a much better mix of magic and armament.

(Other than Elves in old-school "Basic" D&D, of course, but then you had that pesky level limit to contend with.)

DouglasCole · 01-22-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

LOL -- granted, though I was one of the exceptions. As much as I loved Magic-Users (and often played them), the Cleric had a much better mix of magic and armament.

(Other than Elves in old-school "Basic" D&D, of course, but then you had that pesky level limit to contend with.)

I still remember a game with my friend Ken C, with my other friend Karl W as DM. Ken was the Cleric, first level at that. Every time the combat sequence came around to Ken, he, with a disgustedly bored look on his face, held up a sign (he was and is an artist, so it was a very nice sign) that said "HIT HIM WITH MY MACE."

'twas all he could do. That didn't last long. :-\

Crakkerjakk · 01-22-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

LOL -- granted, though I was one of the exceptions. As much as I loved Magic-Users (and often played them), the Cleric had a much better mix of magic and armament.

(Other than Elves in old-school "Basic" D&D, of course, but then you had that pesky level limit to contend with.)

I liked being a cleric. Magic plus armor. Best of both worlds!

~~Peter Knutsen~~ · 01-22-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molokh

It's always been a curiosity to me that many classical games, such AD&D, reserved Stealth for niche of the Thief and to some extent Ranger, but not others, while Kromm thinks it is essential for any action PC.

Could it be because GURPS does a better job at simulating how effective ambush tactics are, than AD&D or D&D3 does?

blacksmith · 01-22-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Meh, it might not be realistic, but "adventuring party = trained unit" is the most practical assumption when playing, running, or writing for an RPG. Lack of party unity makes one story feel like several, loosely related stories. Most people have trouble telling, following, or even caring about more than one.

I am not sure about this. Is the crew from Firefly not an adventuring party? Now how are say Simon or Kaylee's climbing or stealth skills?

Ulzgoroth · 01-22-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmith

I am not sure about this. Is the crew from Firefly not an adventuring party? Now how are say Simon or Kaylee's climbing or stealth skills?

I'd say the crew from Firefly is not an adventuring party.

01-22-2010, 04:49 PM	#42
Kromm *GURPS* Line Editor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Re: Kromm's list of skills every adventurer ought to have And then there's the whole issue of why the PC with the best combination of charisma, intelligence, and motivation – doubtless destined to become the party's de facto face and coordinator, if not its leader – would tolerate a crew of bickering incompetents. You could say, "That's what he had to work with" . . . but it's just as valid to say, "These are the people he selected from among the available candidates." Even in a group that lacks leadership and that coordinates spontaneously, it's fair to say, "Yeah, there were other people before, but we're the ones who stuck together." It often isn't a good idea to game out the party's formation and recruitment process. Frequently, it's better for the players to plan the PC party collectively and agree to an off-screen "origin story," and then to start the campaign with the PCs' first adventure together – the shakedown cruise, as it were. You'll note that in most caper movies with ensemble casts, the whole recruitment process is a montage that gets comparatively little time before the plot starts; e.g., The Italian Job or Ocean's Eleven. In stories that do focus on group-building, there's inevitably a stick beating people into a team; e.g., Full Metal Jacket or The Dirty Dozen. Unstructured recruitment resulting in a flawed, uncoordinated team is a trope of slapstick, not adventure. The stick approach is mainly military, and could justifiably be criticized as inappropriate for nonmilitary teams. However, the montage approach is entirely valid for all adventuring parties, from random fantasy heroes met at the tavern to modern-day crooks. Old-school fantasy games could chuck together random adventurers at the tavern chiefly because they had character classes to ensure certain niches were filled and protected . . . and you can be damned sure that back in the 1970s and 80s, gamers did a lot of "I'll be the cleric!" and "I want to play the thief!" before the tavern scene ever started. __________________ Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> *GURPS* Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just *GURPS* News]