[House Rules] Damage Multipliers, Hit Location & Damage Types

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I believe that if that's the intention, that's nonsensical...

You're sure it's not for Fragmentation damage? That would make a bit more sense.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I believe that if that's the intention, that's nonsensical.

An explosion inside the skull is not less damaging than an explosion somewhere else. Reducing the damage modifier in such a case would be the height of foolishness.

As it happens, explosive damage inside the skull probably does qualify for x12 damage. After all, an explosion which would not do all that much outside the body will certainly kill a man if it is located inside the brain.

I'd certainly use x4 instead of x3 for a brain hit, specifically because of that intention. I'm not sure that x12 is obviously appropriate. I have no idea the mechanics of detonating minuscule explosives inside someone's brain.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I have no idea the mechanics of detonating minuscule explosives inside someone's brain.

Overpressure, tissue damage, death.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Overpressure, tissue damage, death.

...Well, yes, at least if they're big enough. Vague qualitative descriptions I could manage on my own. Game mechanics need quantitative information.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...Well, yes, at least if they're big enough. Vague qualitative descriptions I could manage on my own. Game mechanics need quantitative information.

Like how you're defining "miniscule?" :-D

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Like how you're defining "miniscule?" :-D

Yeah, but I was categorizing my uncertainty, not providing information.

As for giving meaning to 'minuscule', how about the explosive charge of a 10mm HE/HEC ultratech bullet? By the B415 formulas, it's about π grams of TNT. Not that that's a good thing to have explode inside your skull, but it is very small.

Now, the game-mechanic effects. Assuming, somehow, you got this thing in your brain without having in pretty well pulped by the entry wound, it does 1d damage and forces a knockdown roll at -10. By my reading, that 1d is multiplied by 4. You are quite unlikely to die instantly, but probably will pass out promptly even if you aren't unconscious from the knockdown roll. Bleeding occurs every 30 seconds and calls for urgent brain surgery, but if you manage to get that very promptly you may never make death checks.

I haven't got information on the real impact of detonating brain implants, but I could be persuaded that's unrealistic...

I'd like to look at more sensible HE or APHEX rounds, but I'm missing rules for internal fragmentation. I'd say that's worth at least 2x(1d-2)*4 damage, which makes quite a bit of difference.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...Well, yes, at least if they're big enough. Vague qualitative descriptions I could manage on my own. Game mechanics need quantitative information.

A quantity of explosive enough to cause significant harm to a person at a distance of 1 yard is more than enough to utterly ruin a human brain if it explodes inside it.

The result of this are invariably fatal.

I don't have any difficulty saying that x12 is a wholly believable multiplier to use here and that x3 is too little. The current rules, as they stand, would make an explosion in the arm equivalent to an explosion in the skull. That's nonsensical.

[Langy]

If an explosion on your skin is enough to do 1 point of damage - this is considerably more than that contained in a firecracker, which can cause second degree burns just from exploding in a pants pocket and only contains about 50 milligrams of explosives - it is almost certainly enough to kill a man if it explodes within their brain.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Icelander

A quantity of explosive enough to cause significant harm to a person at a distance of 1 yard is more than enough to utterly ruin a human brain if it explodes inside it.

The result of this are invariably fatal.

I don't have any difficulty saying that x12 is a wholly believable multiplier to use here and that x3 is too little. The current rules, as they stand, would make an explosion in the arm equivalent to an explosion in the skull. That's nonsensical.

Why is the multiplier for explosives 3 times larger than the multiplier for arrows, axes, or bullets?

Oh, and I'm going to break out the quote: "treat the blast as an attack on the vitals, with a x3 wounding modifier." There's no RAW support for your ultra-high wounding modifiers for explosives, whereas using the x4 multiplier for the brain when applicable is a pretty obvious correction. Which doesn't mean the RAW version has to be right...

Originally Posted by Langy

If an explosion on your skin is enough to do 1 point of damage - this is considerably more than that contained in a firecracker, which can cause second degree burns just from exploding in a pants pocket and only contains about 50 milligrams of explosives - it is almost certainly enough to kill a man if it explodes within their brain.

Instantly? Then we really ought to ditch this nonsense with damage multipliers for brain injuries, and just assume any penetrating damage to the skull causes instant death. Unless there's something unique about explosive damage that means it should be hyper-effective specifically against brains...

Anything that does one point of damage to the skull has a pretty fair chance of killing a man from bleeding, so if you mean eventual lethality, that's already somewhat covered.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Instantly? Then we really ought to ditch this nonsense with damage multipliers for brain injuries, and just assume any penetrating damage to the skull causes instant death. Unless there's something unique about explosive damage that means it should be hyper-effective specifically against brains...

Anything that does one point of damage to the skull has a pretty fair chance of killing a man from bleeding, so if you mean eventual lethality, that's already somewhat covered.

Well in my book 1, 2 og up to 4 points of damage might not actually be a true "brain hit" even if it hits the skull (and as such deals 4, 8 up to 16 dam). It would all represent serious head trauma but unless you get into -1xHP territory I have a hard time accepting the damage as actually penetrating the brain.

The difference is not in explosion but in INTERNAL explosion. For instance a APEX that explodes once inside your head. I would have a hard time believing why that wouldn't kill anyone, so in that case I would go with the x12 modifier. So even a small 1d-2 cr ex would most likely force survival rolls, or even instant kill. The same woudl be true for INTERNAL cutting or piercing damage, but there isn't really any way to do that in GURPS without explosions.