ESSENTIAL skills for various settings

[Flyndaran]

I rarely leave my apartment. But I do sometimes and still get lost very easily, unless cued in by some unusual smell.
No area knowledge for me... and boy is it noticeable to most people that have heard about me.
Why should there be a whole pont spent on knowing how to do laundry, keep food from rotting on the floor, etc.?
What separates clean freaks from slobs isn't skill, it's simply desire.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by copeab

I'd add Musical Instrument to that list. Piano or Guitar for most people, but band instruments are very likely. Singing is probably less common, but belongs in there.

Heh... I didn't parse that correctly the first time I read it *sheepish* You could add a lot of "spare-time" skills to that list, I suppose... many of Artistic or Craft skills from 3E could fit.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by copeab

I'd add Musical Instrument to that list. Piano or Guitar for most people, but band instruments are very likely. Singing is probably less common, but belongs in there.

Agreed, although I think if I were making a list, I would just generalize it more:

Add artistic skills, athletic skills, outdoor skills, and light crafts. Generally speaking, if it's available as an elective or club activity in a typical high school, it can be your downtime skill without further explanation.

[Þorkell]

What I don't get is the people who have a mania for the Housekeeping skill, while at the same time doubting that people have the Driving skill. What gives? Why is Housekeeping a more likely skill to have than Driving?

[Anaraxes]

I'll disagree on Computer Operation. If you have Computer Operation just because you use a device that happens to have a processor inside of it, then Electronics Operation is pretty much wiped out as a skill, and you also swallow up a great chunk of many other skills at TL8.

For this purpose, I'd rule a "computer" is a reconfigurable bit of hardware that can serve different purposes when you change the software. Computer Operation isn't the skill of running any particular program, but of managing this reconfiguration. Devices that are designed for a particular purpose do not call for Computer Ops to achieve that purpose, even if the device embeds a microcontroller and has buttons and a display.

So, a typical cellphone is not a computer. It has one purpose -- to call people. An iPod is not a computer. A smartphone is probably a "computer", if a small one. It potentially both calls people and plays music.

The security system on your building has any number of computer chips in it, but it's Electronic Ops, not Computer Ops. Your microwave oven is computer controlled, as is your DVD player and your TV. None of those calls for Computer Ops instead of Cooking or Expert Skill (Couch Potato). Build your own "home media gateway PC" type device, and you might need Computer Ops to get it up and running, though.

"Computers" in this sense will call for other skills to use them for particular tasks on top of Computer Ops to prepare the computer for that task. Having Computer Ops-30 does not make you Rembrandt just because you install Photoshop and then Alan Greenspan when you install QuickBooks. Conversely, someone like a graphic artist can employ their skill using a computer without necessarily having Computer Ops at all. (They rely on IT to set up the machine, or simply limp by with their default, which can let you install software with an automatic procedure and start it up -- as long as nothing goes wrong.)

In short, I doubt the average American has or needs Computer Operations as a skill. Somebody else did the work to make those devices serve a purpose, hopefully with a easy and friendly interface, and most people concentrate on using them for that purpose, not monkeying with the computer underneath.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

What I don't get is the people who have a mania for the Housekeeping skill, while at the same time doubting that people have the Driving skill. What gives? Why is Housekeeping a more likely skill to have than Driving?

Because incompetence at Housekeeping can result in negative reputations, social stigma, and/or bad smell.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

What I don't get is the people who have a mania for the Housekeeping skill, while at the same time doubting that people have the Driving skill. What gives? Why is Housekeeping a more likely skill to have than Driving?

I'd guess that it's because you have to live somewhere, but you don't necessarily have to drive to get there.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by copeab

I'd add Musical Instrument to that list. Piano or Guitar for most people, but band instruments are very likely. Singing is probably less common, but belongs in there.

Good catch! Yes, those belong on the list for sure.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

What separates clean freaks from slobs isn't skill, it's simply desire.

The same thing can be said about math, unless you are actually physically incapable of manipulating numbers due to some sort of neurological condition. The desire to not be a slob or figure out algebra drives the attainment of skill.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

This is of course entirely cultural, and will be different in different places; but in Australia, it's certainly true that anyone over about 21 who doesn't have their driver's license is assumed to be chronically impoverished, to have had their license but lost it for some reason, or to be generally a useless deadbeat with no prospects.

Yes, this is definitely cultural. In Canada, the usual assumption people make on meeting a non-driver is along the general lines of: "Wow, that's awesome. You don't waste gas or pollute the city, and you use your backyard parking spot for lots of green plants. And the money you save on gas, repairs, inspection, and parking lets you buy cool stuff." Were I less modest and more dishonest, I'd claim that I was this green, responsible citizen on purpose . . . and then flash cool stuff, like my iPhone or whatever, to show what my money buys instead of smog. But I mostly just smile and don't say anything.

Originally Posted by LynGrey

i DEFINITLY agree with Computer Operation, when my grandmother and my 4 y/o neice are communicating through E-mails... you definitly know that computer operation is a solid foundation of modern life.

Yeah, that's what drives it home for me, too. I can't spend a day anywhere other than in the wilderness without using at least a few computer interfaces. And that's definitely a learned skill . . . ask a recent arrival from a country where they don't have such things.

Originally Posted by kidbrock9

If you are going to force your players to waste skill points on skills like housekeeping (when is that skill EVER going to be useful in game?)

What skill do you think Victor from Nikita or the Wolf from Pulp Fiction uses to clean a crime scene? That's Housekeeping at work on an adventure, right there.

Originally Posted by kidbrock9

Otherwise, you are essentially lowering an adventurer's point value.

Adventurers are expected to have life skills and hobbies, just like anybody else. You're only "lowering their point value" by requiring such skills if you consistently have NPCs around them ignore their gross incompetence at day-to-day living. If, like me, you hassle adventurers who lack these skills for being socially inept slobs, while giving the clean, well-adjusted ones all the social breaks and dialog, then these points aren't remotely wasted.

Originally Posted by kidbrock9

As for the driving debate: most naysayers have been non-Americans. I do agree with the OP that in America, a player should have either: Driving, or an explanation why they don't drive [...]

You mean "United States" here, not "America." Canada is part of America. So is Brazil.

Exactly. Unless you come from a very unusual and dysfunctional background, you will have had childhood chores and at least got that 1 point in Housekeeping by being asked (forced) to fold clothes, make beds, pick up messes, set tables, take out trash, etc. This is expected across Western society and in most other cultures, too. Whereas outside of the privileged, wealthy West, knowing how to drive or even having had the opportunity to learn isn't universal . . . and in large cities, it's possible to live 100 years without ever needing the skill.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I'll disagree on Computer Operation. If you have Computer Operation just because you use a device that happens to have a processor inside of it, then Electronics Operation is pretty much wiped out as a skill, and you also swallow up a great chunk of many other skills at TL8.

Electronics Operation is the skill of using the hardware functions of specialized devices in abnormal and emergency situations. Like Soldier, Computer Operation covers the use of many devices in ordinary, non-emergency situations. Where Soldier assesses coverage on the basis of "Does the army teach it?", Computer Operation does so on the basis of "Does it have software to help you do it?"

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Computer Operation isn't the skill of running any particular program, but of managing this reconfiguration.

You can interpret it that way, but the canonical interpretation isn't that. It very specifically is the skill of using programs; the description even says "run programs, play games." It also says that it's the only skill needed by most end users. The skill phrasing makes it pretty clear that anyone from a world with computers will have this skill. It isn't a specialized or professional skill, but a least-common-denominator life skill, like Housekeeping. Specialized professional users have other skills, like Accounting, Architecture, Cryptography, and Mathematics at a TL that has computers . . . and of course Computer Programming.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

An iPod is not a computer. A smartphone is probably a "computer", if a small one.

The difference between an iPod Touch and an iPhone is . . . a price difference and the ability to make calls. The other 101 functions are identical. It makes way more sense to me to say that Computer Operation (IQ/E) covers both, along with my PC and the ATM, than to say that every Joe has a set of Electronics Operation (IQ/A) skills. And there is a skill here, because people have to learn this stuff -- including older people who grew up without and have to be taught, kids who spend hundreds of hours playing with the stuff, and arrivals from Third World countries.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The security system on your building has any number of computer chips in it, but it's Electronic Ops, not Computer Ops.

No. Canonically, EO (Security) is used to break into and defeat those trying to break into security systems. It's very tricky, abnormal, special-purpose use. General operation is Computer Operation . . . and this is intentional, because industrial designers spend billions every year to make sure that average Joes with Computer Operation can use just about every device they manufacture without having to learn a new skill set.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Having Computer Ops-30 does not make you Rembrandt just because you install Photoshop and then Alan Greenspan when you install QuickBooks.

Of course it doesn't, because these are expert systems that act as basic equipment for and/or give a small bonus to Artist and Accounting skills. Computer Operation lets you get a roll to use the programs and claim them as basic or better equipment; it doesn't replace the skills that use the software.

In essence, if people are going to argue that most drivers on the street have a point in Driving rather than using their DX-5 default at a big situational bonus, then the same logic applies to Computer Operation. Computers don't "just work." Again . . . talk to a new arrival from a poor country with very few or no digital devices floating around. You'd be surprised just how learned a skill it is. We take it for granted, but that isn't the same as it not being a skill.