12-05-2018, 05:34 PM | #41 | |||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
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One typical reason would be that armies like standardized equipment rather than irregulars, and/or for group tactics. But hopefully you'll see they'd be foolish to prefer a 29-point spearman with a shield to a 35-point polearm user without a shield. Quote:
And we're back to "I'm not really out to change your mind." |
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12-05-2018, 05:44 PM | #42 |
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
I'm with Skarg. Most of us are pretty dug-in on this topic. Like I said earlier, it comes down to the kind of game you prefer... old RAW or new RAW, and I strongly prefer the original rules for this.
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12-05-2018, 08:00 PM | #43 | |||
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
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Miranda Warning: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a forum of rules-lawyers. Last edited by platimus; 12-05-2018 at 08:26 PM. |
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12-05-2018, 08:04 PM | #44 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
Nothing wrong with that.
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12-05-2018, 08:43 PM | #45 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
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12-06-2018, 01:21 AM | #46 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
Platimus, it seems like we're on really different pages, here. Perhaps too different to ever make sense to each other.
I can't tell if you really don't follow what I'm saying, or are just suggesting contrary interpretations as a discussion style? Quote:
The point is that you should not be able to "train" any old peasant easily from 29 point to 34 points. If you could, then if anyone can train anyone in even a single one-point talent, then the system implies they could also ramp people up way above the population average in attributes, easily. But if they could do that, many would, and the average would not be 30, but it is, so that's what I meant about not being consistent. |
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12-06-2018, 11:01 AM | #47 | ||||
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
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Using the Pudork example, will the legion he attempts to join accept every peasant that wants to join? I would think not. What circumstances motivated and allowed Pudork to leave the family farm and join the legion? If you think about this from a medieval history perspective, why weren't all the peasants turned into soldiers? I doubt it was because the peasants were not physically capable of becoming more than peasants. In modern terms, why doesn't every inner-city kid living in the slums rise above their situations to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc? Surely you would not suggest that they are an inferior race of beings incapable of improving themselves.
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12-06-2018, 11:22 AM | #48 |
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
Fascinating "technical" discussion - thanks you, to everyone
For me, it was and still always is, "a heroic character in a story or game is not defined by how they are built or how they are presented, but by what they do, the decisions they make." |
12-06-2018, 11:39 AM | #49 | ||||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
Because it does not match the entire rather self-consistent body of published TFT characters throughout all TFT products. Nor does it match the descriptions in ITL of what average attribute scores in the population are.
If average is 30, and the range is about 24 to 40 (6 points below 30, to 10 points above 30), then there are many people with attributes in the 24 to 30 range. It can't be very easy or common that people add attributes. If you read and play all TFT products ever published, and you pay attention to the attributes of the NPCs listed, you'll see that the vast majority of humans warriors listed are in the 30-34 point range, and are supposed to be somewhat competent. So if basic military physical conditioning, or any other common training available to people, could give you 5 attribute points as easily as it could give you a one-point talent, then this would not be the case, or it would make no sense. Quote:
Really though you've bypassed the main point, which is why is gaining 5 attributes on par with learning just one talent point? I was a bit generous in giving Pudork the Pole Weapons talent. If he had no weapon talent and had to learn that too, it'd take 1500 XP, not 500! I don't think there's any point discussing any of the rest of it without tackling that. Quote:
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Not sure why you're asking, but I think peasants tended to be mostly average people who may have had the equivalent in a weapon talent or two, probably not as good though as a trained soldier at fighting with them (but TFT doesn't have a good way to represent that the way GURPS does). I think that basic training's physical conditioning probably does things like train discipline and physical fitness, and probably at most might maybe give some trainees +1 ST and/or +1 DX if they were not in good condition already. It might be worth some XP, but mostly I think it should be able to train basic talents. And that they probably do not increase people's attributes much if at all - I'd call it maybe 1d6 x 10 XP per three months of training. I think a military training program should be able to teach 1-4 points of talents, usually taking about a year. That matches SJ's original rate of 1 talent point per 3 months of study, and my house rule of double time to study total talent points above your IQ. I think most NPCs may not have their full IQ in talents. |
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12-06-2018, 01:10 PM | #50 | ||||
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell
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