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Old 07-13-2018, 05:35 PM   #1
ColBosch
 
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Default So...What Next?

I know there's a "what do we want" thread already, but this is a bit different. I'd like to explore where people think the Ogre line should go once Battlefields hits and all of the old material has been updated to current standards. I'm also going to assume that the plastic miniatures sets continue, until everything that was once in metal and/or resin is now in plastic.

So, given the above, what comes next? What would excite you, and what do you think new players would like?

Personally, I'd like to see a big box game with new factions in it. This gives new players a shiny new game and has solid value for existing fans. It would then be supported with a small number of high-quality supplements. In my mind, all this would look something like the following:

OGRE: The Battle of Beijing
MSRP $79.95. Contains one G.E.V.-style map (new, call it "G4"), rules, two basic armies (Nihon and Chinese, each with GEVs, HVYs, MTs, MHWZs*, INF, and a cybertank with record card), and chipboard counters, including a sheet of 3D buildings. Includes the Sixth Edition Revised rulebook and a supplemental booklet of scenarios and faction-specific special rules (pseudo-Ogres and advanced Nihon weapons, etc.). * - I'm including MHWZs instead of fixed guns so either side can be a mobile force.

OGRE: The Battle of Shanghai Battlefield Pack
MSRP $29.95. Contains one Shockwave-style map ("S4"), a scenario booklet, and more 3D chipboard buildings such as lasers.

OGRE: Nihon Empire Army Pack
MSRP $49.95. Contains all the "advanced" units for the Nihon faction, including cruise missile crawlers and the Steel Samurai cybertank.

OGRE: Chinese Army Pack
MSRP $49.95. As for the Nihon Empire pack, with a Mk. V-equivalent pseudo-cybertank.

I raised the MSRP for the Army Packs over the Miniatures Sets to allow for 1-2 new sprues to be added and/or extra copies of the "basic" units.

Then, follow these up a few years later with an Israeli vs. Caliphate series ("The Battle for Meggido," perhaps). After that, a South American-themed series, then return to Combine vs. Paneuro.

Thoughts, and what would YOU think should come next?
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:49 PM   #2
Dave Crowell
 
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Default Re: So...What Next?

The battles of Sheffield and Montreal are pretty iconic for the Ogreverse, battle packs with maps, counters and scenarios for them would be fun.

Also I would love to see South Amrica, Nova Brasilia, etc.

I am leary of adding (too) many new unit types to Ogre. The ones the game has work very well and at teh level of abstraction it is hard to fit in more without complicating the rules. As it is buildings are often a step too far on record keeping for me.

I think new maps and scenarios to go with them would be great. Map boards for Ogre/GEV are not cheap, whether mounted chipboard or neoprene so they need to bring good play value. Scenarios are a good way to do this. Also terrain types or configurations that are not on the current maps. Desert, arctic, jungle, a large central urban area, islands, what ever.

China and Nihon are probably the best excuse to add a few new units, mostly cybertanks I would expect. To my mind "Heavy Tank" covers a lot of MBT ground with one designation. The subtle differences just don't show.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: So...What Next?

I think the above idea using Sheffield would be GREAT!

And while I wouldn't want to complicate things too much, some new terrain type might have to be added. Sure, some of it might just be "forest" or "swamp" in a different costume, but still . . .

I've been wanting Mountains (infantry only and at 1 hex per turn) or even Forested Mountains (infantry only and at 1 hex every OTHER turn). Also cliff hexsides. Other terrain would be great, but you cannot introduce too much all at once.

And I wouldn't mind seeing some strategic level stuff for a Sheffield-sized campaign, but use a lot of "handwavium" so as not to bog the game down with unwanted details. So something like "If you can capture this town of five hexes without reducing more than two hexes to rubble, then (assuming you have a Vulcan and several squads of Combat Engineers) your "strategic" needs are considered met for another thirty hexes distant from the edges of this town." Or something like that.

This means that you'll have to eat the enemy in smaller bites ... :)

More scenarios are great, but let's not just do the same scenarios while dressing up the pieces in different costumes. You'll need to add something (a new terrain type, a new unit, a new rule, something that makes it different from anything that has come before.

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Old 07-13-2018, 08:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: So...What Next?

Oh yeah, I don't want a zillion new units, especially if they're faction-specific. I firmly believe that all conventional units - INF, HVY, GEV, HWZ, SHVY, LAD, whatever - should share the same old stats. The real faction flavor should be in their cybertanks, and aside from specialist units like Vulcans and Ninja, any special rules should simple and very limited.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: So...What Next?

More reskins of the same units is not what we need; they hardly ever get used other than when you feel like a different color.

One of the reasons we don't have a bunch of new units is because they are hard to get right. What currently exists does a very good job of filling all the gaps; there aren't many places where a unique variation would have an appreciable advantage that would make you use it. Some of the new GEVs in BatG are pretty close, though.

There aren't a lot of new Ogres that would be any different, either. The notable exceptions are the Golem and Dragon that have had some airtime over the last few years. Getting those fleshed out as real units would be cool.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:55 PM   #6
TexPoec
 
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Default Re: So...What Next?

I have 't been a new player in decades, but I suspect the casual base needs to grow dramatically. For every twenty basic players you will generate a hard core person who will support more factions and maps and sets.

It has been nice to see all the new stuff come out in the last few years, but I have never been as excited about Ogre as I was the first time I opened up that little plastic box in 1984 or so. The minimal background story and stark counter design made the cybertank and high tech units more mysterious.

Make more people feel that way.

Could they create a good quality basic game for less than $30? I am talking something like a basic Risk quality game. Something that might have a slim chance with a mass market.

Fore more serious players, faction counter sets tied to scenarios might be the best way to go. Also miniature sets with the necessary unique units like faction Ogres.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: So...What Next?

The difficulty will lie in making something new, but not adding too much useless complexity. A hallmark of Ogre is the overall simplicity, so I'd hate to see it turn into Battletech or ASL somehow.

New scenarios keyed to a new map release, with a minimal set of scenario specific counters could be quite good though.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: So...What Next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
More reskins of the same units is not what we need...
Do you mean you don't think they'd sell, or that you wouldn't personally buy them? Because I don't think a new customer is going to care. There are lots of games out there where each sides' playing pieces are equivalent.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: So...What Next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
Do you mean you don't think they'd sell, or that you wouldn't personally buy them? Because I don't think a new customer is going to care. There are lots of games out there where each sides' playing pieces are equivalent.
Both.

I don't personally need HVYs in 100 colors; I rarely need more than two. I'm lucky to get a three-player game; usually a two-player. Fielding 5+ armies is a relative impossibility. My choices are usually: I'm playing NAC vs PE, do I want classic counters, ODE counters or Minis? And especially in my case, I've been playing so long that I don't care about the factions anyway. The graphics of who's who aren't important; I still think in terms of B/W, not factions. I'm getting worn out buying the same stuff over and over in different colors; most of it sits on the shelf and I just play with red and blue because there's no reason to use the other colors.

As for new players not caring, you are right; they aren't likely going to care if it's NAC or PE or Nihon or whatever. Unless you can provide a compelling reason why you need every color under the sun, they won't sell (you can't bank on Competionist Disease). Ogre boardgame material doesn't really promote factions beyond NAC and PE. Sure, it's out there in the fluff and in the ODE sponsor sheets, but it's not promoted; and certainly not promoted enough to justify producing a rainbow of counter colors.
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: So...What Next?

This is diverging from the OP, but I think OGRE could really use a low-cost entry point that still has great visual appeal.

Perhaps a paper "crater" map and just the counters or miniatures to do a Mk III defense.

Something fun and inexpensive to bring new players into the fold...
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