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Old 06-22-2018, 06:09 PM   #1
redcoat
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

Hi guys, I’m just writing to share some thoughts I have about Ogre as a miniatures game.

The game play is well balanced, which to be honest is a rare thing in miniatures gaming. It's also fun and easy to learn. One of the strengths of the game is that it has gone 40 years now with very few rules revisions. The plastic minis have a lot going for them and I jumped back in to the game when you started to make them available. Paint does not chip off plastic minis the way it does with metal. You can also get crisper edges with plastic at 6mm scale. The quality of your plastic minis is excellent. Most importantly, the cost is proportionate to the life expectancy of the figure on the tabletop. If I lose 4 heavy tanks before they could even take a shot, at least I didn’t pay 40 actual dollars for them. The time and effort to paint them is proportionate too. I can do a quick paint job for the hordes of gevs that still looks great at this scale. I can spend a little more time and effort painting the Ogres and have something that looks really cool.

From a miniatures gaming point of view, I think you have arrived at something that works really well. I think there are a couple of things you can do to give it a good chance of continued success.

The look of the tabletop battlefield is an important part of miniatures games, and Ogre will benefit from developing some sprues of basic terrain pieces, like buildings and craters. The game universe has enough history by now that there is a certain feel and atmosphere that you can capture when people put their toys on the tabletop. People will come up with good pieces that they have made themselves, but there is more to the Ogre universe than just the tanks and doing some terrain pieces can help build up the aesthetic aspect of the game. Glow in the dark craters…

I also hope that you will begin keeping the basic units in stock, rather than let them run out and orphan the remaining inventory, which is the case with the metal minis you have now. I often thought about buying some metal minis over the years, but I didn’t because some of the key units had become so hard to find – and that meant I didn’t buy anything. My sense of things is that Ogre is a cult classic that has a core following of people who will shell out money for Kickstarter campaigns. I also suspect you may be averse to keeping the parts in stock because the metal ones were so hard to sell. But I think Ogre has the potential for a wider audience if new players are confident that they will be able to buy the pieces that they need down the road and I think plastic sprues make that possible. You might also consider breaking up the miniatures sets so that someone who wants more of something can get it without having to buy everything else.

But if set 1 is no longer available for retail by the time you release set 4, I think you are going to have a hard time bringing new players in. And if I start finding that if I miss the one-month window to get into a Kickstarter and that means I miss out entirely… well then I’m going to lose interest. Avoid creating the impression that if I miss the Kickstarter I am out of luck.

If you do plan to keep the components in stock, then I think a few changes to the warehouse 23 site will help. First, if stock does run out but you plan to bring more in, then keep the item in the online catalog with a shopping cart option like, “notify me when this is available”. If you plan to have new items for sale after the pre-order phase is over, then do the same thing, rather than take the item off the online catalog entirely. That way, I think you are increasing the odds that someone who is just noticing your product will stay interested instead of having a profound sense of FOMO
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:23 PM   #2
Steve Jackson
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

Thank you for the reasoned feedback.

Though it's HARD to keep a long line in stock all the time unless sales reach a certain minimum. Easier than it used to be, though.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

The market is weird right now. Games are selling well, but it feels like people want a large array of titles rather than "deep dives" into one game at a time.
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Old 06-23-2018, 03:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
The market is weird right now. Games are selling well, but it feels like people want a large array of titles rather than "deep dives" into one game at a time.
The thing I hear from elsewhere in the boardgame industry is that with a new game you now have one month from retail launch to make a profit. (That was "three months" last year.) After that, unless you get amazingly lucky, it's a sharp drop-off; anything left in the warehouse counts as "long tail" sales and has to be balanced against storage costs, inventory taxes, etc.

Now obviously I'm not an insider and I may be being misinformed, but with a boardgames market that's obviously very crowded I suspect that this isn't completely wrong. The thing that Ogre doesn't, and can't, have, is the "this is an amazing new game" feel, so it has to compete in other ways.

Consider how Car Wars back in the day, Battletech up to the present day, and X-Wing recently, keep/kept players spending money: a constant flow of new stuff to buy, new weapons, new units, etc., so that if you play with the old stuff against people who've bought the new stuff you're going to lose. One of the things very much in Ogre's favour is that it doesn't do that.
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Old 06-23-2018, 04:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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...Battletech up to the present day...
I wouldn't use that as an example right now. BattleTech is in a state of transition, with literally no products released in the past year. It's gearing up for a major relaunch hopefully around GenCon, with shiny new boxed sets (one low-cost/rules-light "Beginner" set, one regular-price/more-rules-heavy "A Game of Armored Combat" set) and the start of a new edition of the Core Rulebook series. Until I see what Brent Evans and his team actually produce, I am not considering them as evidence of any sort of trend.
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Old 06-23-2018, 05:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
if you play with the old stuff against people who've bought the new stuff you're going to lose. One of the things very much in Ogre's favour is that it doesn't do that.
Thats a major reason why I've hesitated to get into any miniatures games up to now, that and the "player with the fattest wallet wins" aspect of certain games.

Last edited by Izzy_B; 06-23-2018 at 05:47 AM. Reason: fixed broken quote tag
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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Thats a major reason why I've hesitated to get into any miniatures games up to now, that and the "player with the fattest wallet wins" aspect of certain games.
Yeah. I keep looking at Games Workshop's stuff, and it is gorgeous, but holy cow I am not paying $40 for one plastic model when I can get an entire army for Ogre.

...which, now that I think about it, might be why I've bought so many copies of Miniatures Sets 1 and 2...
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
Yeah. I keep looking at Games Workshop's stuff, and it is gorgeous, but holy cow I am not paying $40 for one plastic model when I can get an entire army for Ogre.

...which, now that I think about it, might be why I've bought so many copies of Miniatures Sets 1 and 2...
Zactly. Didnt wanna name names, but thats what I had in mind. Oddly enough that aspect seems to make it popular. But it aint for me. Who am I to judge?
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

We're wandering far afield of the OP's post.

Here's the nice thing about the steel molds: as long as SJ Games pays for their storage, they can be used for years. Indeed, Set 1 has been run twice now. Even if the molds end up recycled, the company has now proven that they can fairly rapidly produce new molds and run off more miniatures if demand starts to rise. If not, well, at least they were able to get some product into the hands of the fans.
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
I keep looking at Games Workshop's stuff, and it is gorgeous, but holy cow I am not paying $40 for one plastic model when I can get an entire army for Ogre.
Plus you get to play Ogre.
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