Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

[GodlessRose]

I was pondering something. One thing I like about the Mythos Fright Checks is that they make contact with the Mythos different from ordinary Fright Checks. But everyone to comment so far (including a GURPS Cthulhu GM who does not frequent this forum) agrees that the rule is overkill. And though I haven't seen it used in play, the numbers make me uneasy regardless.

So I was thinking of a revision to the rule that would make it more playable. I'm not sure if it's worth the added complexity, though:

When confronted with Mythos phenomena (as opposed to ordinary scary stuff), a character must make a Sanity Check. This is the same as a Fright Check, except situational bonuses and bonuses from Combat Reflexes and Fearlessness are reduced by half, since the psychological damage is due to more than simple fear. (Add them together before halving - a single level of Fearlessness sometimes helps.) Penalties are unaffected. On a critical failure, the character acquires one level of Fearfulness (Mythos only) [-1], unless he worships the Mythos, in which case he is immune to this effect. Also, rolls to recover from stun caused by a failed Sanity Check only receive half the usual bonus from Combat Reflexes.

However, if the roll is made in combat, and fails by the balance of the Heat of Battle bonus (3 points) or less, then the reaction to the horror is delayed until the end of combat.

Cultists who critically succeed on a Sanity Check gain either a point of Will, a point of Energy Reserve, or, if it would be useful, the Rule of 15 Perk. This won't come up much in play, of course, but it helps explain why some cultists retain the ability to function in society despite a great deal of contact with the Mythos, and have such high Will and magical ability (Power in BRP).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

Do you mean the added cost for Will and Per would subject them to more sanity loss and surprise attacks? Possibly. But I tend to run low-action games where mental skills are vital. And I like to pit the muscle against monsters who are resistant to the more common weapons, so their brawn doesn't always help.

If you uncouple Will and Per from IQ, and give them a base value of 10, then you really would do better to have IQ cost 10/level. Otherwise, if I wanted to build a character with IQ 15, Per 15, and Will 15, I would have to pay 150 points instead of 100, which is a really big surcharge. And you know, if you aren't going to have most characters use magic—or, perhaps, base magic on Magery (in the Cthulhu Mythos I would recommend going for Power Investiture instead)—there really aren't any big point balance issues in having IQ cost 10/level.

Bill Stoddard

[GodlessRose]

Originally Posted by whswhs

If you uncouple Will and Per from IQ, and give them a base value of 10, then you really would do better to have IQ cost 10/level. Otherwise, if I wanted to build a character with IQ 15, Per 15, and Will 15, I would have to pay 150 points instead of 100, which is a really big surcharge. And you know, if you aren't going to have most characters use magic—or, perhaps, base magic on Magery (in the Cthulhu Mythos I would recommend going for Power Investiture instead)—there really aren't any big point balance issues in having IQ cost 10/level.

Bill Stoddard

I'm mainly using the rule in this campaign for consistency across campaigns, not because I think it is necessary in this particular case. Though I don't think 19 pts for IQ! is excessive regardless. It's just a matter of making players pay what it's worth, instead of giving them the point break the designers built in.

[Gollum]

Your house rule is interesting. But there is still a problem...

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

When confronted with Mythos phenomena (as opposed to ordinary scary stuff)...

What is exaclty the limit?

In Call of Cthulhu, there also are "ordinary" monsters. What about squelettons, zombies, etc. Are they ordinary monsters with ordinary fright-checks or, since they are summoned by myhtos forces, are they mythos monsters, with mythos fright-checks?

And what about ghoules? And what about Fungies? They are almost ordinary extraterrestrial...

If you make a difference between the two it will sometimes be hard to decide.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

I was pondering something. One thing I like about the Mythos Fright Checks is that they make contact with the Mythos different from ordinary Fright Checks. .

Frankly except for certainly particularly bizarre phenomena they should be ordinary Fright Checks. Consider a Deep One. It's just a half-man half-fish. Out of the experience of the average person, and the method for producing them is squicky, but they aren't especially exotic in their nature. They aren't even bullet resistant. What I'd suggest for the truly wild and funky manifestations is to give them the Confusion power from Powers. Cosmic it so Unfazeable doesn't help.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

What I'd suggest for the truly wild and funky manifestations is to give them the Confusion power from Powers. Cosmic it so Unfazeable doesn't help.

Or just a further penalty... Which is already taken into account in the monster penalty, since Call of Cthulhu doesn't make any difference between these two kinds of fright-checks: a pen flying alone in the room uses the same sanity rules than a confrontation with Cthulhu himself.

[GodlessRose]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Your house rule is interesting. But there is still a problem...

What is exaclty the limit?

In Call of Cthulhu, there also are "ordinary" monsters. What about squelettons, zombies, etc. Are they ordinary monsters with ordinary fright-checks or, since they are summoned by myhtos forces, are they mythos monsters, with mythos fright-checks?

And what about ghoules? And what about Fungies? They are almost ordinary extraterrestrial...

If you make a difference between the two it will sometimes be hard to decide.

At first I thought that would be an easy question, since the BRP rules distinguish between Mythos and non-Mythos sanity checks. From pp.76 of the 6e core book:

Non-Mythos shocks can also cost sanity points. This includes witnessing untimely or violent death, experiencing personal mutilation... In this category we can also lump our world's common supernatural events or agents, such as hauntings, zombies, vampires, werewolves, curses, etc.

But on reflection, it seems rather arbitrary. Why would it cause one sort of trauma to see a zombie, and another to see a byakhee? Both contradict our assumptions of reality. I never really gave it much thought before, since that was just how the game worked. Besides, this is a game about fungi that use wings to fly to Pluto. You just have to suspend disbelief.

But when you put it under the microscope of GURPS, quirks like that are harder to accept. CthulhuPunk, pp.45, limits Mythos Fright Checks to encounters with "Old Ones, their power, or their works", where Old Ones are (pp.15) "all prehuman entities or sentient races of the Mythos... a Mi-Go or Elder Thing is an Old One". This is consistent with the BRP CoC core book. But why would an alien who happens to worship the Great Old Ones affect the mind in a way a werewolf doesn't?

Eh. I can't explain that except to say "That's just how it works. Shut up and roll the dice." Which wouldn't be a problem if it were intrinsic to the genre, but I'm not sure it is. It seems to just be an artifact of Chaosium's interpretation.

I could just say no non-Mythos supernatural entities exist in my campaign world. And I have yet to introduce any in my games, since the Mythos is just more fun. But then normal Fright Checks would only be rolled for mutilated corpses and such. And realistically, I think anyone who deals with such things regularly should be able to take a Perk exempting them from Fright Checks. So nearly all Fright Checks rolled would be of the Mythos variety, making them much less special...

I could just limit it to, say, Mythos tomes, spellcasting, and Great Old Ones, but then Mythos checks would be rare for those who don't study the tomes. The less impact on play, the less point to the added complexity...

Hmm. Your question is a good one. Perhaps the Mythos Fright Check should just be laid to rest entirely.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Frankly except for certainly particularly bizarre phenomena they should be ordinary Fright Checks. Consider a Deep One. It's just a half-man half-fish. Out of the experience of the average person, and the method for producing them is squicky, but they aren't especially exotic in their nature. They aren't even bullet resistant. What I'd suggest for the truly wild and funky manifestations is to give them the Confusion power from Powers. Cosmic it so Unfazeable doesn't help.

I had missed the Cosmic option on that, which is intriguing. Confusion with Cosmic would make sense for Daoloth, for instance.

This reminds me of something else I was pondering - that some Mythos beings seem to have very different effects on different individuals. Cultists react with awe, while others experience horror or confusion, all to the same being.

I was thinking of just using the Fright Check table and playing fast and loose with the Mental Disads. Though if someone gets a confusion-related disad, that might shift him to the Confusion table for future rolls. And once someone acquires Delusion: Cthulhu is my Savior, it would make sense for him to start rolling on the Awe table. Though I wouldn't want to do that to a PC. (Unless he agreed beforehand, of course. Who needs Dimensional Shamblers when someone who knows the party's deepest secrets turns double-agent...)

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

At first I thought that would be an easy question, since the BRP rules distinguish between Mythos and non-Mythos sanity checks. From pp.76 of the 6e core book...

Oops! I just have the fifth edition, in French, and it doesn't make such a distinction... At least, I don't remember having read it!

;-)

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

But on reflection, it seems rather arbitrary. Why would it cause one sort of trauma to see a zombie, and another to see a byakhee? [...] Hmm. Your question is a good one. Perhaps the Mythos Fright Check should just be laid to rest entirely.

This is why I prefer using ordinary fright-checks in my GURPS-Cthulhu campaigns. To my mind, the shock due to the fact that it is not understandable by a the human mind is just a factor among others, a factor that can improve the penalty, but which doesn't change the nature of the roll. I do agree with you, here. Seeing a zombie for someone who doesn't believe that spirits can live after death is as shocking as seeing a strange creatures coming from a dimension that no-one knows...

The other reason, as explained above, is that it takes time to create a GURPS character, much more time than creating a Cthulhu character. So, the player don't like to loose their character easily. And the Cthulhupunk fright-check rules are too much dangerous. So, since I want my player to detail their characters, I also want to keep them alive and sane for a long time.

Finally, the third reason, which is the most important, is that the Basic Set fright-check rules do the job very well. The player are as afraid of making a fright-check roll than they ar of making a sanity roll... I remember the reaction of one of them, when his character just vomited... He didn't become crazy. He didn't even get a new disadvantage. He just vomited for several combat turns... But his player looked disgusted, and remembered this encounter for a long time! The goal was achieved: making the players feel what their character feels and making them realize that myhtos creatures are insane...

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

And once someone acquires Delusion: Cthulhu is my Savior, it would make sense for him to start rolling on the Awe table.

Hmm... still adjustable by circumstance, though? Because I would think that even the crazed worshiper might be taken aback when the Great Old One reaches for him... or gobbles up a fellow cultist.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Hmm... still adjustable by circumstance, though? Because I would think that even the crazed worshiper might be taken aback when the Great Old One reaches for him... or gobbles up a fellow cultist.

Once you've got the Delusion, no better fate can be imagined.