Adding a Template to a Character

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

In D&D, the concept of multi-classed and/or dual-classed characters has been around for a long time.

In the Conan stories, Conan seems (to me, at least) to change professions from time to time (thief, pirate, soldier, etc...).

Do any of you allow characters to add additional professional templates that they may draw from?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Hrothgar Rannúlfr

Do any of you allow characters to add additional professional templates that they may draw from?

Thats more a GURPS thing than a DFRPG thing but sure.
The DF series has lenses for multiclassing and I dont adhere rigidly to templates anyhow.
Templates are there to make character creation faster by organizing and narrowing choices and to provide niche protection.
They also help someone build a class type without overlooking vital skills fr that type.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Refplace

The DF series has lenses for multiclassing and I dont adhere rigidly to templates anyhow.

Specifically if this is all you're interested in then DF 3 The Next Level has an entire section on mixing profession for DF.

[Stormcrow]

If you're talking about a character built from one template deciding to change careers, or just career focus, then you can simply require that from now on the character choose traits from the new template.

For instance, if you've got a swashbuckler who wants to become a thief, start spending your earned character points on traits from the thief template, probably starting with the primary skills.

Only with the game master's permission, of course.

[Kromm]

My view of the best way to handle this idea in spirit: "Give up" your current template; you keep and can continue to use any abilities you already have, but you lose future access to its special traits and Exceptional Abilities (Exploits, p. 93). Choose a new template. Start spending all your earned points on the mandatory traits of that new template – not lists of "X points chosen from among" or "N of these" options, but minimum attribute and secondary characteristic levels, fixed advantages, and skills other than the very last list of options. Once you meet these standards, you're considered to be a member of the new profession and have access to its special traits and exceptional abilities.

For instance, to become a martial artist, a knight would have to raise DX from 14 to 16, Will from 10 to 11, Basic Speed from 6.00 to 7.00, and Basic Move from 6 to 8; buy Chi Talent 2 and Trained by a Master; and add Acrobatics-15, Judo-15, Jumping-16, Karate-15, Meditation-10, and Stealth-15. The GM would most likely let the knight's existing weapon skills cover those needs. The knight would also have swap -10 points of existing disadvantages for Disciplines of Faith (Chi Rituals). Once all that was done, the former knight could start buying Chi abilities and chi skills, and would replace the options "HP up to 1.5×ST (round up). Can add or improve melee weapon skills whenever they have enough points – even mid-battle!" with "Up to Chi Talent 6, Enhanced Dodge 3, and Extra Attack 2; any amount of Wild Talent; and new Chi abilities."

[ArchonShiva]

Oh, pretty much OD&D dual-classing, then!

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Kromm

My view of the best way to handle this idea in spirit:

Bleh. I hated 1e D&D. (and all D&D in general)


My take: Once they purchased themselves up such that they have all stat minimums, advantages, and skills from the new Template at base* (paying Training Expenses for off-Template skills and advantages), then they can operate as though they were both Templates for Power Ups.


* By which I mean they have what it takes to be a 'starting' example of that Profession.

Once all that was done, the former knight could start buying Chi abilities and chi skills, and would replace the options "HP up to 1.5×ST (round up). Can add or improve melee weapon skills whenever they have enough points – even mid-battle!" with "Up to Chi Talent 6, Enhanced Dodge 3, and Extra Attack 2; any amount of Wild Talent; and new Chi abilities."

What happens if said Knight has HP at 1.5×ST already?

These questions are why I just let them be both (or all) the Templates once they buy up to Template base.

[Kromm]

The debate is unwinnable.

There are those who feel that if you want to spread your character points around, that's your call – you have x points, and it's up to you whether you place them all on one bet, hedge your bets, etc. For them, characters are like visiting pubs: Have a beer here or have a beer there. Buy three cheap drinks instead of one expensive one. All that matters is that you can afford to pay the bartender.

There are those who feel that there needs to be a premium to enter a niche, to keep that niche distinctive, even exclusive. You have x points, but now your choices are constrained by minimum buy-ins and career paths. For them, characters are like joining private clubs: You have to be this rich and take out a membership. There may be a waiting list. And belonging to a rival club just isn't done. Only once you're finally in can you buy a drink, though it may cost no more than at the pub.

The first group sees the second as needlessly snobby and exclusionist: "If I have the points, I should be able to spend them as I please. If I spread them too thin, that's my problem and nobody else's!" The second group sees the first as lazy and irresponsible: "We each have our ordained role to fill, and if we don't stick to it, we're letting down the side with our lack of commitment." You're probably not going to find middle ground.

I lean toward the first in gaming in general.

However, in dungeon-crawl games I favor the second because I see dungeon crawls as commando raids by well-crafted teams of specialists, each of whom should be far along in a role. At, say, 350 points, there will be threats suited to those who can do their primary job at the 350-point level, so everybody had better punch at that weight. If one person is functioning closer to a 275-point knight, 150-point thief, and 160-point wizard (there's some overlap, of course!), they might be more broadly useful but they're not pulling their weight in any one role . . . and in the process, they're sitting in three niches, possible making two other players feel like they're sharing the spotlight too often. So I think it best to enforce a minimum standard and to require a specific path going forward.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

To some of us, that sounds like being lax about RAW.

Well... it's certainly lax about RAI. But as I'll mention just below, I disagree so fundamentally with RAI that I might be a bad example to listen to...

Originally Posted by Kromm

The debate is unwinnable.

Sure... and I play GURPS because I'm so firmly in camp one that I beat the drums and wave the flag for camp one endlessly.

Maybe too much. C'est la vie.

[Colarmel]

5 Easy Pieces from the latest Pyramid seems like a nice way to do this, without adding in exceptional abilities, which seems fair.