Disadvantageous version of Link

[awesomenessofme1]

If you have two switchable advantages that both are a free action to switch between, it doesn't make sense to have to pay points for Link. I think it makes sense to give both of them the standard -10% Accessibility limitation for only being usable while another advantage is active. Does that seem reasonable?

[Plane]

By 'switch between' do you mean to switch on or off? 'Between' sounds like an either/or situation (Alternative Advantages). Do you have examples of 2 free-action advantages you're thinking of combining?

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Plane

By 'switch between' do you mean to switch on or off? 'Between' sounds like an either/or situation (Alternative Advantages). Do you have examples of 2 free-action advantages you're thinking of combining?

Sorry, yeah, that was unclear. By "switch between", I meant that they could be switched on and off as a free action.

I'm pretty sure that both Insubstantiality and Invisibility can be activated and deactivated as a free action. Those are the ones I was originally thinking of.

[Anaraxes]

The +10% version of Link is meant to cover the case where you're saving a turn of activation. Otherwise, you use the -10% form. I think the latter would apply in the general case.

In this specific case, though, I disagree that Invis and Insub are free actions. The default activation time for an Advantage is a one-second Ready Maneuver (B34). I don't see anything in the text of Invis or Insub that says that they're a free action, overriding the general case. (For that matter, Invis is Always On in its base form. You'd need to buy Switchable before it was, well, switchable.)

Though if the idea is to combine them, you should per Kromm just make the Always On Invis an Accessibility (Only While Insubstantial) rather than use Link at all. See the uFAQ (hiding in the "I want an ability that costs FP or HP to use" question).

One level of Reduced Time (B108) will change a 1-second activation time into a free action. So, put RT on the Insub, give Invis the -10% "Only While Insub" Limitation, and you can instantly activate both together, but not activate either one on its own.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The +10% version of Link is meant to cover the case where you're saving a turn of activation. Otherwise, you use the -10% form. I think the latter would apply in the general case.

In this specific case, though, I disagree that Invis and Insub are free actions. The default activation time for an Advantage is a one-second Ready Maneuver (B34). I don't see anything in the text of Invis or Insub that says that they're a free action, overriding the general case. (For that matter, Invis is Always On in its base form. You'd need to buy Switchable before it was, well, switchable.)

Though if the idea is to combine them, you should per Kromm just make the Always On Invis an Accessibility (Only While Insubstantial) rather than use Link at all. See the uFAQ (hiding in the "I want an ability that costs FP or HP to use" question).

One level of Reduced Time (B108) will change a 1-second activation time into a free action. So, put RT on the Insub, give Invis the -10% "Only While Insub" Limitation, and you can instantly activate both together, but not activate either one on its own.

Thank you for the link. For some reason, I really thought that the abilities could be switched on and off as a free action, but checking Powers, you appear to be correct. One more question, though: Since I don't actually want to apply an FP cost, wouldn't it make more sense to apply the -10% limitation to Insubstantiality rather than Invisibility? Would that be allowed?

EDIT: I forgot to factor in the cost of Switchable. It looks like in this situation, both Invisibility (Switchable)+Insubstantiality (Only when invisible) and Invisibility (Only when insubstantial)+Insubstantiality cost the same amount.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Since I don't actually want to apply an FP cost, wouldn't it make more sense to apply the -10% limitation to Insubstantiality rather than Invisibility?

The FP cost isn't required. That design strategy got posted during a discussion about how to divide up the discount for Costs FP in a multi-Advantage ability. So the uFAQ entry makes it hard to find. It's a general concept, though.

You apply the Accessibility Limitation to the Always On Advantage(s) in the combined ability, and only those. (It's a Limitation because that ability then isn't always on.) Of course, you have to have at least one Switchable ability if you're going to turn the combined ability on and off at all. The advantageous Link (+10%) comes back into the picture if you have more than one switchable ability in the package that's not a free action, whereas you also might opt for the disadvantageous Link (-10%) on any switchable abilities that weren't free actions.

One switch to rule them all, and in the stat block bind them.

[Plane]

I'm wondering what mechanical difference might exist between
Insub (only while invis) + Invis
Invis (Link+10) Insub (Link+10)

In the first case, the ability to jam/cripple the invisibility would jam/cripple the insubstantiality too... but would it in the 2nd case?

Link+10 means you "must be used together"... what if, to make it worth the extra points, it's just a "must TRY to use" as in it's always a simultaneous activation, but if one is jammed/crippled, the other will still activate while you try 'firing blanks' with the paired ability?