10-28-2011, 11:52 AM | #21 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
... No, the /2 is for the rated ST ONLY, not for the maximum. 14*3 is still 38 - the rated ST for an effective ST 38 Siege Crossbow would be 76(!!), but it shoots like 38, which you can't get with a gastrophetes at all.
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10-28-2011, 12:01 PM | #22 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
Crossbows aren't Muscle Powered Weapons. yes hey have a ST rating but ther damage is not based on the user's ST
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10-28-2011, 12:03 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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Then, since Kinetic energy is mass x velocity squared and you can't get any more velocity you have to use more mass. You can get a very light arrow to break on a very heavy bow but you can get around that problem with stronger materials. You can't get around the speed limit. You'll get a mechanical speed limti with pretty much any device built to shoot physical objects. Maybe 250-300 feet per second with bows, maybe a little higher with crossbows, 2000 or a little elss with black powder and not quite 3x that with smokeless and so on.
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Fred Brackin |
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10-28-2011, 12:08 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
According to the table, the ST value bows and crossbows is the minimum rated ST (siege x-bow: 14M). So if the triple minimum rule applies, I'd triple that value (42). And according to the steel crossbow entry, I'd use half the rated ST for damage and range (21). Apparently my reading comprehension is already on its weekend level…
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10-28-2011, 12:16 PM | #25 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
You can't have very arrows? I thought they were just +49 CF like other Very Fine Miscellany?
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10-28-2011, 12:25 PM | #26 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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It would get odd, since it takes a hyper-realistic and complicated design process (by my own admission) and at the very end, jump back to the Damage Table.
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10-28-2011, 12:26 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
Bows and crossbows were the topic of almost unending debate on the playtest. I finally went for a conservative treatment rather than a comprehensive alternative system, because I couldn't see agreement on any particular system.
Steel crossbows are a tricky case. I looked at the actual measured physical properties of steel by comparison with horn, sinew, and wood, and tried to express them through GURPS rules. My copy of the book with the relevant tables seems to be in hiding, but my recollection is that steel isn't really the best material for storing elastic energy; its advantages are more in durability and compactness than in energy per unit mass. Bill Stoddard |
10-28-2011, 12:33 PM | #28 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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The first is "spine." If you don't have an arrow shelf, releasing the bowstring causes the arrow to flex and deflect sideways. There's a "right" amount of deflection to make the bow shoot straight. The second is efficiency, which is quite important. You want the arrow to be infinitely heavier than the deflecting mass of the limbs . . . since the energy you put into drawing the bow will accelerate the string and limbs as well as the arrow. Heavier arrows are more efficient in capturing maximum energy from the draw. Range is proportional to velocity, though . . . so if you want to capture basically all the energy, but only have a few yards of range, have at. If you still want a DISTANCE weapon, you start to make compromises!
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10-28-2011, 12:42 PM | #29 | |||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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So while the scaling equations were actually quite simple, the number of edge cases got out of hand. As an example that happened after the playtest, here's an off-list post I made to a group of people: Quote:
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If one looks at the bow cost per pound in The Deadly Spring (pp. 5-6, I think), you'll see that most of the materials Bill mentions are much more expensive than steel. The cost is based on energy storage capacity per pound, and wood and horn are MUCH better! But they run into other problems, which is why you eventually need to use steel for really high-draw-weight crossbows. If you pound on my design system, I think you'll find that TL3 steel is not well suited to anything, TL4 steel is a strong competitor with natural materials, and TL5+ starts to do very well up until the engineered materials like fiberglass and carbon fiber come onto the scene and kick (archery) butt.
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10-28-2011, 06:38 PM | #30 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
Quote:
The other thing to note is that high draw weight is not the only factor. Steel is much stiffer than horn, and it takes much greater force to bend it, so it has a higher draw weight. But energy storage is force times distance, or stress times strain, and steel's elasticity reaches its limit at a lower strain than horn's, which more than cancels out the benefit of greater draw weight. Bill Stoddard |
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Tags |
bow, bows |
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