06-16-2019, 07:30 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
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Or you count it all, according to RAW, and only make an exception for aiming that could change radically from the point of your attack declaration to your turn to act. As well as withing your turn to attack; if you have to roll to miss, which probably is the game rule reason to except range penalties. Otherwise, at which adjDX would you act if you have to roll to miss someone, close by without range penalties, then roll to hit with some penalties, and if you miss some other character even further away could be the target. A huge difference if you are throwing your weapon. Another reason could be the double shot or faster reloads with a crossbow. IF you separated the two attacks based on range, you might have two bowshots if you aim at one guy, but not if you aim at that guy and another one. So I get that ranged weapons are an exception. And again, Skargs way of handling it, where he just declare the next guy in initiative order, and if anyone can break in before due to bonuses or penalties they go first. And if someone misses their adjDX turn, they can go at a later time but no retroactive changes. It takes time to have a proper adjDX countdown otherwise. And with many enemies, a GM can get bogged down. And realistically speaking an attack isn't one swing, it is how fast you can bring an attack to bear, often one or more quick combos or a well-timed riposte to the enemy's initial combo to try to open your defense up. So adjDX isn't as much speed as it is skill. Otherwise, movement would be based on DX (like in GURPS) and initiative would be based on DX. But yes, high skill means you aim faster, opens up an enemy's defenses for a real strike faster, etc. And if someone is lying down, their defenses are already compromised so you can go for the real attack immediately and hence score a hit faster. And we also have the all-around perception issues, you have to spend time looking around you, weigh your tactical options, look for good foot placement, maybe duck thrown weapons, etc. And all those factors also slows you down in a grand melee, compared to a one on one duel. And that is also related to skill and experience, more than pure speed. So I have no problem with people realistically attacking in order of skill. Highest skilled person gets the chance to finish the fight first, and then his less experienced opponents get their chance. But as always, the rule of fun rules! |
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06-16-2019, 11:17 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
Well written response, and yes rule of fun is determining!
My take is to encourage giving the RAW a good few outings on this before moving to more strict order. The groups I’ve been in have always found it fun and never noticed any problems. Basically after movement it is pretty clear what the order of actions will be. the players look after themselves. It keeps our attention on what’s happening and the dynamics of the battle. We players are only too happy to note our DX has increased due to facing bonus. And when someone is knocked down it can be like a shark frenzy. If sometimes someone does something out of order, it’s not a disaster. We basically carry on. Attacking fallen figures is for us by far the most common event within the action phase to change DX order, and that is so significant it isn’t hard to remember. The other thing is that TFT combat often has little knots of combatants. These three over here, the archer in the back dealing with the wolf, etc. And within those knots you can see the facing etc going on and not too hard to keep relative order straightit, at least in our battles (4 a side pretty typical). So yes I’d encourage RAW here, it’s never been a problem for us (of course ymmv, for many reasons), and after all these years, I still find it so satisfying to get in a big attack before I was “supposed to” because I managed to get in to the side! |
06-17-2019, 06:31 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: May 2019
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
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06-17-2019, 08:39 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland Area, Illinois
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
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The firer looked at the slowly receding target, looked at a flapping banner (to gauge wind direction & speed) and then fired the arrow. This took less than 5 seconds but it presumably took a bit longer than if he was firing at someone 3 yards away. |
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06-17-2019, 11:39 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
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06-17-2019, 02:20 PM | #16 |
Join Date: May 2019
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
I agree, my argument is that making this decision does not have to be at the expense of realism or otherwise depend on any more suspension of disbelief.
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06-19-2019, 12:06 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
What about this scenario?
A (AdjDX 12) and B (AdjDX 11) are attacking C (AdjDX 12) and D (AdjDX 12) all are engaged. A can hit C, B can hit C or D, C can hit A or B, D can hit B. AB have initiative so A goes first. A gets lucky and gets 8 hits on C, knocking him down. Normally, D would go next but B has an opportunity to attack C at +4 or AdjDX 15. IF he takes it, then his attack is next. If he chooses to attack D then he has to wait until D makes his attack. Correct, is it not? My play has always been that adjustments for facing always affect speed of attack because it incorporates the idea that facing allows for an quicker hit within the 5 second Turn. From the beginning we house ruled that Missile Weapons DID get the adjustments for facing - based on the above thinking. (But those adjustments did not affect Bow speed. Raising AdjDX above the minimum did NOT give you two shots per Turn, that depended only on Base Dx and Armor + magic adjustments).
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Helborn |
06-19-2019, 06:51 PM | #18 | ||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
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(e.g. Several ranged-weapon opponents face each other - and they can shoot sooner if they choose to shoot at foes who are facing sideways?) |
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06-20-2019, 08:40 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
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I like fewer rules. 🤓 |
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06-21-2019, 09:33 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?
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As far as thrown weapons, we have had this discussion before. The rules states these are the same as melee weapons with the only exception being the thrown ranged modifier. So, I give them facing bonuses. And facing bonuses affect order of attack with thrown for the same reason it affects it with melee. Easier to spot an opening. But as before, the thrown weapons are debatable as it is not specifically spelled out. |
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