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Old 06-22-2019, 03:07 PM   #21
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Missile weapons are clearly in the rules that the do not get facing adjustments and that their range adjustment does not affect order. Missile weapons are the exception on both points. No other place does it mention either of these.
Yes, and our assumption was this meant all ranged attacks (including thrown weapons and spells) as well. It seemed too illogical that one type of ranged attack would be different in this way, and there is no diagram showing what the Side or Rear arcs are further than one hex away from a victim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
As far as thrown weapons, we have had this discussion before. The rules states these are the same as melee weapons with the only exception being the thrown ranged modifier. So, I give them facing bonuses. And facing bonuses affect order of attack with thrown for the same reason it affects it with melee. Easier to spot an opening. But as before, the thrown weapons are debatable as it is not specifically spelled out.
And as I'm sure I mentioned in those earlier discussions, we took that statement as one of the many cases where Steve's writing style only explains basic concepts here and there, rather than giving complete rules for all aspects in one place. So yeah, thrown weapons are a lot like melee weapons except for the range penalty... and several other concepts that are not mentioned there. And what does that "exactly like" even mean with regard to facing? Maybe they get the facing bonus but only in the only hexes ever defined as being side or rear hexes, which are only the ones exactly one hex away?

In another topic, MikMod also kindly pointed out some other clues from the rules:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
ITL p115: "Thrown Spells... are targeted just as though they were thrown weapons. The DX adjustment is exactly the same." P106 'a figures facing does not affect the AdjDX of spells cast at him'

Also consider the diagram on p114. A is discussed throwing a weapon at various people but no side or rear adjustments are mentioned, despite them clearly facing away from their attacker.

And on p106. "A physical attack" made from the side gets +2 and from the rear, +4. What does "physical attack" mean though? It's explained a few lines earlier: "a physical attack may only be made against a figure engaged with you - that is in one of your front hexes", so this is pretty clearly not a bonus for ranged attacks...
That first one looks like better evidence to me, using the same sort of logic, that thrown weapons "exactly like" thrown spells, don't get a facing modifier. Especially since that rule actually mentions facing modifiers, while the rule invoked to say they should get facing modifiers does not mention facing modifiers.

And if that's not enough, the facing diagram example gives several examples of thrown weapon to-hit modifiers at people from behind, and does not use facing modifiers.

Page 106 also seems to spell out definitions that would lead to not using facing modifiers for thrown weapons, again with the possible exception of (often pointless to do) thrown attacks from 1 hex away.


To my mind, which was never unclear on this subject, all of MikMod's citations are stronger than the one used to imply thrown weapons get facing modifiers, and the examples on ITL 114 with diagram seem especially conclusive to me.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:30 PM   #22
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Attacking a prone figure - adjDX for both time of attack and to hit?

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
(e.g. Several ranged-weapon opponents face each other - and they can shoot sooner if they choose to shoot at foes who are facing sideways?)
Yes. They don't have to spend as much time aiming.
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