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Old 07-01-2019, 01:49 PM   #1
RVA_Grandpa
 
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Default Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

In the Tomb of the Wizard-King liches are described in detail. One of the keys to killing a Lich is to destroy its phylactery. It is easier to destroy the phylactery if you can remove the 'magical armor' that protects it from the 4 hits of damage inflicted.

The Dissolve Enchantment spell is suggested. In the spell description (ITL p 31) it says that the spell cost is 100 ST for a greater magic item and 50 ST for a lesser magic item. So here is the question:

What type of magic item would the phylactery be considered?

Asking for a friend...
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Last edited by RVA_Grandpa; 07-01-2019 at 01:51 PM. Reason: additional reference
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

Can I extend this to ask what the cost is to use Dissolve Enchantment against Shapeshift, which it is also listed as the 'cure' for, but with no clear ST cost implication?
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:14 PM   #3
zot
 
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa View Post
In the Tomb of the Wizard-King liches are described in detail. One of the keys to killing a Lich is to destroy its phylactery. It is easier to destroy the phylactery if you can remove the 'magical armor' that protects it from the 4 hits of damage inflicted.

The Dissolve Enchantment spell is suggested. In the spell description (ITL p 31) it says that the spell cost is 100 ST for a greater magic item and 50 ST for a lesser magic item. So here is the question:

What type of magic item would the phylactery be considered?

Asking for a friend...
Liches are very serious business. A lich's phylactery would definitely be a greater magic item but possibly even more powerful than that, if that is possible.

Here are a few thoughts...

Perhaps becoming a lich requires at least one greater wish. In that case, a greater wish might possibly counteract the transformation, unless the transformation "completed" and not "maintained" by the wish. Perhaps it would require both Dissolve Enchantment and a greater wish to "unravel" a lich's phylactery.
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Perhaps becoming a lich requires at least one greater wish. In that case, a greater wish might possibly counteract the transformation, unless the transformation "completed" and not "maintained" by the wish. Perhaps it would require both Dissolve Enchantment and a greater wish to "unravel" a lich's phylactery.
On page 2 of the Tomb of the Wizard-King it says:
Quote:
All liches have a phylactery – an amulet, ring, crown, or similar valuable – that keeps their spirit anchored to their physical form. It must be kept on the lich’s person at all times. If it is lost, the lich cannot heal or regain lost ST in any way. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich will crumble to dust.
Destruction of a phylactery is not easy. Phylacteries are protected by the same magic that sustains the lich. No matter the material of which they are made, they have a minimum ST of 20 and are protected from the first 4 hits of damage inflicted, as if they were magically armored. A Dissolve Enchantment spell will remove the protection from a phylactery and make it as vulnerable as any ordinary object, but this spell requires a lot of ST and high-level wizardry.
I don't see the need for a greater wish. Once the armor enchantment is removed with the dissolve enchantment spell, the phylactery can be destroyed like "any normal object."

It may be that the spell needs 100 ST instead of 50. I don't know, which is why I asked.

Chris Rice is the author. Maybe I need to ask him directly.
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

(I have cast the Summon Christopher Rice spell.)

It's only 4 armor though - you could just keep hammering it.

Open Tunnel only costs 10 ST, too. ;-)
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

It absolutely is meant to be a greater magic item. As others have noted liches are no joke and that was the intent when I made them for TFT.
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
It absolutely is meant to be a greater magic item. As others have noted liches are no joke and that was the intent when I made them for TFT.
4 points of armor thought doesn't seem particularly tough though? I mean, does it heal or anything? A broadsword could kill one in 7 hits on average.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:46 AM   #8
zot
 
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa View Post
On page 2 of the Tomb of the Wizard-King it says:


I don't see the need for a greater wish. Once the armor enchantment is removed with the dissolve enchantment spell, the phylactery can be destroyed like "any normal object."

It may be that the spell needs 100 ST instead of 50. I don't know, which is why I asked.

Chris Rice is the author. Maybe I need to ask him directly.
Ah, I haven't read Tomb of the Wizard-King. I thought you were talking about using D&D liches in TFT.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?

I was just thinking of a way to impliment liches in my game in the shower this morning. I was thinking that it would be the use of the Zombie spell or Control Person to create a magical item that the wizard uses to elongate his life and therefore his power, but also to dissolve the limitations of his mind. Possibly becoming one’s own thrall entails liberation from all of one’s deep internal limitations, because they control themselves by direct command only. They become a machine of the Ego, unfettered by the Id and Superego, able to operate completely in line with their most superficial of values. I thought this would be an interesting explanations for their evil, and a unique approach for a phylactery. I have no idea how they’re actually statted for TFT.
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