Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2012, 04:48 PM   #1
Finalsora811
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default TL4 Poker Chips

I'm attempting to make a gambler and I was wondering 2 things.

1. Would they have had Poker Chips back then? If so, would they have been the same as ours?

2. Would they have had Casinos back then?
Finalsora811 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 04:54 PM   #2
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

In the historical European Renaissance? Neither existed, as far I know. I've got some books on gaming in that period. Poker itself didn't exist, but an earlier version (which is quite fun) called Primero did.

What's really interesting (to me, anyway) are many period dice games, which lack a modern understanding of classical probability and therefore are often "rigged" unintentionally.

I have no idea if single purpose casinos (as opposed to gaming halls in other establishments) or gambling tokens existed in China or elsewhere, though.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 04:56 PM   #3
robkelk
Untitled
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Considering that the game of poker didn't come into existence until the mid-18th century (at least that's what Wikipedia says), I'd be surprised if poker chips existed before then. It's more likely people would be using actual coins instead of tokens that represent coins.

However, at least one casino existed in TL4: Il Ridotto. (Again, according to Wikipedia)
__________________
Rob Kelk
“Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.”
– Bernard Baruch,
Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950
No longer reading these forums regularly.
robkelk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 04:59 PM   #4
Walrus
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finalsora811 View Post
1. Would they have had Poker Chips back then? If so, would they have been the same as ours?
I don't think so - they could use just ordinary coins which were valuable enough and of similar size. Any tokens except wooden ones, maybe, would be too expensive to use.
Quote:
2. Would they have had Casinos back then?
Certainly. There were gambling houses millenia B.C. (actually, the Chinese recorded the first official account of the practice in 2300 BC).
__________________
MH Setting. Welcome to help.
Walrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 05:01 PM   #5
gruundehn
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Gambling chips did not exist until the early or mid 19th century but casinos did exist back then as a type of hotel. The gambling room(s) were an attraction of the hotel and perhaps what made them different from a hotel. Of course I am, as often the cse, going off of old memories here. But I remember reading about the Renaissance in Italy and this was a point made. Casinos were an invention in Italy as a development of the hotel during that time frame.
__________________
The World's Tallest Dwarf
gruundehn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 05:02 PM   #6
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
Certainly. There were gambling houses millenia B.C. (actually, the Chinese recorded the first official account of the practice in 2300 BC).
I guess it really depends on how you define "casino". The modern casino where "the house always wins" really requires TL5 statistics, I'd think.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 05:02 PM   #7
Turhan's Bey Company
Aluminated
 
Turhan's Bey Company's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finalsora811 View Post
I'm attempting to make a gambler and I was wondering 2 things.

1. Would they have had Poker Chips back then? If so, would they have been the same as ours?

2. Would they have had Casinos back then?
Poker chips as such weren't invented until the 18th or 19th century, making them TL5. However, tokens used as markers for games and quite possibly gambling, which can be though are not necessarily coin-like, go back to the Romans. Dedicated gambling houses are of similar vintage. They're a matter of economics more than technology.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs.

Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit!
Turhan's Bey Company is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 05:39 PM   #8
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Although the first gambling house was legalised in Venice in 1626, actual poker chips as we now know them were still not used for over two hundred more years. Back in the 19th century and prior, poker players seemed to use any small valuable object imaginable. Early poker players sometimes used jagged gold pieces, gold nuggets, gold dust, or coins as well as "chips" primarily made of ivory, bone, wood, paper, and a composition made from clay and shellac.
thats wikipedia on "casino token".

my guess is that tokens are a result of moving to paper money. The players might have thought the game didn't feel right without "coins". It also could have something to do with the incredible economic mess of the early west.
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 06:49 PM   #9
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
. Dedicated gambling houses are of similar vintage. They're a matter of economics more than technology.
Yes, a few farmers gambling agsinst each other could probably bet sheep but a real casino needs to rake in hard money.

They also need a large enough profit margin to cover the overhead on their facility and staffing. This tends to require a significant number of persons with disposable income in their pockets to make up the customer base.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 06:57 PM   #10
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I guess it really depends on how you define "casino". The modern casino where "the house always wins" really requires TL5 statistics, I'd think.
No, it just requires keeping track of those games where the house wins. You need statistics to determine ahead of time what the odds are, but bookkeeping and time are sufficient to identify winning patterns.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gambling

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.