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Old 05-19-2018, 11:29 PM   #1
Phantasm
 
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Default [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

I've got a player who wants to have his M-16 adjusted in such a way as to reduce its Rcl 2 to Rcl 1. Now, I'm going through High-Tech and Gun-Fu and not finding any mods - factory or after-market - that adjust the Rcl. Quite a few that affect Acc and of course ammo to affect the damage.

Is there anything I'm missing? Also, what's the overall effect of permitting this kind of mod besides the obvious "M-16 is effectively recoilless"?
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:09 AM   #2
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

Gun-fu and Tactical Shooting have compensators, which give +1 skill when you fire 3 or more shots. Aside from that, you’d be looking at adding some internal mechanical system like the Kriss Super V (Tactical shooting; .45 ACP with recoil 1!) or derivatives of the Russian AEK-971 prototype, such as the AK107.

When it’s practical for competition shooting, lead weights are added to the stock and handguard to reduce recoil, but you’re talking about turning a 6-7 lb weapon into a 20 lb one. I haven’t seen rules for this anywhere in GURPS.

Last edited by clu2415; 05-20-2018 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

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Originally Posted by clu2415 View Post
Gun-fu should have compensators (affects muzzle rise) and muzzle brakes (affects recoil and muzzle rise). Aside from that, you’d be looking at adding some internal mechanical system like the Kriss Super V (Tactical shooting; .45 ACP with recoil 1!) or derivatives of the Russian AEK-971 prototype, such as the AK107.

When it’s practical for competition shooting, lead weights are added to the stock and handguard to reduce recoil, but you’re talking about turning a 6-7 lb weapon into a 20 lb one.
Gun-Fu (and it looks like TacShooting duplicates these) does have compensators and muzzle brakes, but those don't affect Rcl; they add +1 to effective skill when firing 3+ shots, with compensators reducing the weapon's ST by 1 and brakes adjusting Bulk by -1. Trust me, I went looking for those first.

You have page refs for the TacShooting stuff you mentioned?
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

I doubt you'll find anything that reduces Rcl to 1, because Rcl 1 is reserved for things that are either recoilless or have such a high rate of fire that multiple projectiles leave the weapon before it starts actually recoiling.

As for what will happen if you let someone have a Rcl 1 M16, in a TL8 campaign he'll be doing double the damage of anyone else with an assault rifle, and will be much harder to Dodge. Full-auto with Rcl 1 is a good part of why laser rifles are such good all-round weapons once they're available (the rest is their penetration and accuracy).
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

Multiple Projectile ammunition will do it, at the cost of same damage and having to source the stuff. Apparently 5.56mm duplex rounds have been made in the past and are practical, but don't seem to be available to buy at the moment so you probably need to make your own or find a specialist who will charge a hefty price.
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
Gun-Fu (and it looks like TacShooting duplicates these) does have compensators and muzzle brakes, but those don't affect Rcl; they add +1 to effective skill when firing 3+ shots, with compensators reducing the weapon's ST by 1 and brakes adjusting Bulk by -1. Trust me, I went looking for those first.

You have page refs for the TacShooting stuff you mentioned?
The Kriss super V is on page 65. I’m not aware of GURPS stats for the AK-107.

The basic problem of reducing recoil runs up against physics. You have to manage the opposite reaction to accelerating a lump of lead to high speed. Compensators and muzzle brakes help manage that, but you still have the same rearward force. Muzzle brakes direct some gas backwards to counter recoil, but they depend on the amount of gas available to divert. 5.56 doesn’t have enough gas moving around to reduce recoil in GURPS terms, but in HT there are several references in weapon descriptions to high caliber rifles with muzzle brakes taming the recoil. There’s also hypervelocity bursts like the G11 and AN-94, which fire a burst so fast that there’s recoil 1 applies to shots inside he burst but full recoil applied in between bursts. Again, a complicated mechanical system that can’t just be tacked on.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

I allow people to reduce Rcl by 1 if you have STx1,5 of the weapon. And by 2 if you have STx2. This is for effective ST. So if you wield a pistol two-handed you reduce the ST-requirement to 4/5. Which might just tip you to Rcl:2 instead of Rcl:3 for big revolvers.

But never to below Rcl:2 for gameplay reasons.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

For single projectile rounds, GURPS typically only allows Rcl 1 for high cyclic firing rate weapons (High Cyclic Controlled Bursts, HT83; note such weapons have an RoF with a # at the end). Converting an M16 to fire such bursts would probably require replacing the entire feed system, and would require exacting precision on the gunsmithing.

Reading up a bit on the Kriss Super V - the exception to the "only RoF n# weapons" rule - the recoil compensation system employed there is something innate to the design of the weapon itself, and wouldn't really be possible as an after market mod. You might be able to design a 5.56 NATO rifle that looks like an M16, but it would be a new weapon built from the ground up, not a modification to an existing one.

I could be mistaken, however.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:05 AM   #9
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Baughn View Post
Multiple Projectile ammunition will do it, at the cost of same damage and having to source the stuff. Apparently 5.56mm duplex rounds have been made in the past and are practical, but don't seem to be available to buy at the moment so you probably need to make your own or find a specialist who will charge a hefty price.
Duplex rounds don't reduce Rcl. They just increase Rof.

Rcl is generally not subject to modification by RAW as a deliberate design goal of the system as far as I can tell.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: [HT/Gun-Fu/TS] Mods to reduce Rcl?

Making your M16 rcl 1 is plunging right into Superscience, so the answer is in UT, Gravitic Compensator pg 152
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