What do YOU want changed?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

The important thing is doubling ST doubles damage.

If we wanted this:

ST10: 2d
ST20: 4d
ST40: 8d

I'd be cool with it.

That's _definitely_ playing HERO. 1D per 5 pts is their progression.

My point was that the current ST progression has good reasons for existence. It's job is to provide meaningful differences between ST 10 and ST 11 and the 1 pt of Swing per pt of ST does that.

Gun and other weapon damage, armor values and similar matters are much more arbitrary and can re-scaled with fewer consequences.

We probably need to try and simplify the differences and complications of gun armor penetration and tissue damage in any new edition.

Currently we are using one number for both but then frequently modifying both factors. This borders on the insane and it's certainly complicated.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Not good for Gurps traditional focus on characters with realistic stats. No difference between ST 10 and ST12 and people are going to ask why we aren't playing Hero.

To be fair, the skill at DX+1 would mean hitting at effective ST13 for the ST12 character.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

How about we mess with guns stats instead? Set 25mm RHA equal to DR100 (or other number of your choosing)and re-jigger gun penetration to match. It's not like Gurps rolled dice in lots of 20 anyway. Groups of 6 are what's preferred.

Then we're back to rejiggering HP too and need to work out something like Luke's quadratic HP, or a more detailed wounding system.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

My point was that the current ST progression has good reasons for existence. It's job is to provide meaningful differences between ST 10 and ST 11 and the 1 pt of Swing per pt of ST does that.

We probably need to try and simplify the differences and complications of gun armor penetration and tissue damage in any new edition.

On the other hand, I think the ST-to-damage table comes from the days of Man to Man when all ST was good for was damage, encumbrance, and grappling. Now that there are a dozen other things to use ST for, it may be worth reconsidering.

TBone had an alternative ST chart where all damage is based on one column (sw attacks have a higher damage bonus not a higher base damage) and ST 10 = 1d, ST 10 = 2d, ... and there are no more than 2 ST scores which give the same damage. But that increases the lethality of hand-to-hand combat unless you change something else.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

It becomes a multiplier based on the lever arm and mass. What I'd do is multiply the user's ST by a factor

With log ST, adding a plus to ST is a multiplier.

So generic Swing as +2 ST and then skill at +1 means ST 10 character gets +1 to damage for effective ST 13.

So lots of table lookups when creating characters or adding points to existing characters and then just listed dice plus adds in actual combat.

Actually that's just one table for the lookups and weapon stats look like:

Pokey sword: SW +2 cut, TH +1 Imp.

You take these modifiers, add in ST and skill and read off damage.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Not good for Gurps traditional focus on characters with realistic stats. No difference between ST 10 and ST12 and people are going to ask why we aren't playing Hero.

A while back I was playing around with this same concept, and I came up with something like
1 1d/5
2 1d/4
3 (1d+1)/4
4 1d/3
5 (1d+1)/3
6 1d/2
7 1d/2
8 1d/3+1
9 (1d+1)/2
10 (1d+1)/2{6}
11 1d/2+1
12 1d/2+1{5}
13 1d{:4}
14 1d{:6}
15 1d
16 1d{5}
17 1d{4}
18 1d{3}
19 1d+1
20 1d+1{6}
21 1d+1{4}
22 1d+1{3}
23 1d+2
24 1d+2{6}
25 1d+2{5}
26 1d×2-1
27 1d×2-1{5}
28 1d×2-1{4}
29 1d×2-1{3}
30 1d×2
A number in braces { } means that if the die roll is that number or higher, add an additional one point of damage. If the number in braces is followed by a colon {: }, subtract one if the die roll is that number or higher.

I never really went very far with it, though. Still, it gives a linear relation between ST and damage, and every point of ST will do on average a little more damage.

It wouldn't work very well for people who like to roll more than one die for damage.

Luke

[kenclary]

Changes I would make to Melee Weapon skills:

- Combine Shortsword and Broadsword into one skill; may as well call it Sword.

- Combine Spear and Staff. Call it Spear.

- New skill: Club (or, call it Shortstaff, per Kromm's suggestion from some thread long ago). Covers balanced sticks of many types, from a small baton up. It has a reasonable (-2?) default to and from Sword and Axe/Mace. With this scheme, any knife-sized or smaller stick is used as a yawara with basically any unarmed skill. "one-handed" sticks are used with Club, and sticks longer than 4 feet are used with Spear.

- Change the weapon differentiation so that weapons fall under the two-handed skill based on size and other handling characteristics, not just number of hands on the grip.

To use a two-handed weapon with just one hand, it's still the same skill, but subtract 1 or 2 from your ST (log ST!) for minST and damage purposes. Similarly, if you have a normal-sized sword with a grip built for two hands (like a late katana), add 1 or 2 to your effective ST with the weapon. (If it doesn't have the right grip, you just resort to Defensive Grip.) Some weapons will still have two entries because they are close to the boundaries (like bastard sword or long knife).

(Maybe, maybe rename the two-handed skills Greatsword, Greataxe, etc. to avoid confusion).

- Use the following progression for parry modifiers based on parry surface: knives get -1 to parry; swords, sticks, axes, etc. get +0; two-handed swords, polearms, and staves/spears get +1; longer (reach 3 and up) staves, spears, and polearms get +2.

- Make the relative weapon weight option from MA standard for all melee weapons. Also apply it to rapid strike penalties.

- Remove Smallsword, Rapier, Saber, and Main Gauche skills. Those weapons can fall under Sword (or Knife), and those styles can be built as martial art styles. Relative Weapon Weight rules account for "fencing parry," and a new Footwork perk could account for improved retreat bonus. A main gauche and similar weapons have large, nice hilts that account for the lack of a -1 parry penalty that knives usually get (a large hilt can counteract a small parry surface, but doesn't add to parry for actual swords). Off-hand training perks can fill for the last remaining part of Main Gauche skill.

[tjmiller07]

Originally Posted by kenclary

Changes I would make to Melee Weapon skills:

- Combine Shortsword and Broadsword into one skill; may as well call it Sword.

- Combine Spear and Staff. Call it Spear.

.

I really do like this ideas, in fact in the game I'm running now I use these rules. It seems less messy to me and in fact more practical.

Some time ago in a psionics campaign I played in, there was a huge debate about Telekinesis rules and it boiled down to book descriptions, so if that was reworked and reworded I'd have a grand old time.