03-17-2014, 12:11 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Doing strange things with Resonances
Under what circumstances would (a) a Role or (b) Asmodeus' Humanity attunement cover up the Disturbance caused by Calabite resonance?
Is it possible for Shedim to possess Undead in general? If not, does the Shedite of Death attunement get around this? Do Elohim risk dissonance if they are clearly enjoying what was strictly speaking the most rational action (e.g. torturing a demon into talking to the Seraph)? Can Cherubim/Djinn/Elohim/Habbalah/Impudites/Malakim/Mercurians resonate themselves, and is there any possible benefit or non-obvious risk for them if they do so? |
03-17-2014, 01:04 PM | #2 | |||
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
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Elohim: Yes, but they'll probably be dissonant if it shows anything up. Of course, they'd already know if they were Dissonant, so no benefit there. Habbalah:Yes. They could easily drive themselves crazier. Whether that's a benefit or a risk depends on perspective, I suppose. Malakim: Yes, but it won't tell them anything they don't already know. Impudites/Mercurians: Yes, and it might tell them if they've been deceiving themselves about their feelings regarding others, and possibly also whether other have been deceitful regarding their feelings towards the Celestial. |
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03-17-2014, 03:58 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
To raise a few notes of disagreement with Dali on Resonances:
Cherubim/Djinn: yes. I would probably rule that self-attunement is Selfish and therefore Dissonant (but possible) for Cherubim. You could also read any self-protection by a Djinn that can't be passed off as stemming from some other motive to count as denial of permission to herself to come to harm, which is a mildly elegant way of encouraging/explaining the Band's stereotypical nonchalance. Elohim: knowing what you would do in a given situation is actually extremely useful! A Power may well know what its breaking point is, the better to stop short of it. I take it that most Impudites are self-Charmed, and that this comes with a cost in analytic abilities that makes it not universal (especially among the most ambitious Takers.) Lilim almost certainly self-resonate regularly. Like Impudites Calabim like to self-Resonate but have to balance it against objective costs; they may do it as often as healing resources commit, and outright self-destruction may be a relatively common danger. I like the idea of Habbalah as emotionless and affectless except insofar as they self-resonate; their emotions exist for utilitarian reasons but can chain out into sequences of emotions that unfold according to their own logic: a Habbalah makes himself angry to summon up the needed energies for a fight, then still wanting to hurt people makes himself sad to inspire pity, then feeling sad self-resonates to... |
03-18-2014, 02:48 AM | #4 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
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Got a rules citation on that? Thematically, for Zombis I'm right there with you, as they are soulless corpses - but Vampires and Mummies are Human as far as the Symphony is concerned, and the process for their creation involves them going straight from living to undead without ever becoming a corpse in between, whereas going by Saminga's Zombi attunement and the Create Zombi ritual in CPG, all Zombis have to have once been corpses. Again, rules citation please, but with less fervency because thematically I'm right there with you. Cherubim are Guardians, and guardians are meant to protect others rather than themselves; Djinn are Stalkers, and it's kind of hard to stalk yourself. Though, I wouldn't call it inherently dissonant if it was possible - but then, I don't feel mere selfishness should cause dissonance in angels, simply because that makes it easier to have them turn up on Team Evil when running "other, nicer angels" or "unusually sympathetic demons". Quote:
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Mercurians maybe. Impudite resonance doesn't impart information though. |
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03-18-2014, 02:59 AM | #5 | |||
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South of the Town across from the City by the Bay
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
IANAAB (I am not Archangel Beth), but unless I missed an errata from SJG's 1st edition errata file, here's what the book says:
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So, since Calabim resonance is essentially blowing stuff up with entropic "mind/soul blasts," it's hard to speak of a human role which that is what it would normally do. Until there's common acceptance of psychic powers blowing stuff up for fun and profit, there's basically no way to mask this. However, if you changed the setting to where psykers run rampant blowing stuff up...? If you ran In Nomine in the Warhammer 40K universe you could easily get away with this. You'd still be just as persecuted, as psykers are persona non grata, but it wouldn't create that disturbance to attract other celestial attention. The next one is pretty easy, as IN core rules already address this. "Humanity This attunement lets a demon pass as a human under any circumstance, to anyone -- except Lucifer. It costs 1 Essence to activate and remains in effect for 24 hours. During this time, nothing the demon does creates ripples in the Symphony. He becomes human in almost every regard: his vessel requires food and maintenance, he can't perform Songs, regenerate Essence naturally or assume his celestial form on Earth. He may use attunements, both passive ones and those which require Essence to fuel them, as well as his basic resonance. He may spend Essence to enhance die rolls, but while the demon is "human," he may not freely exchange Essence with someone else." (IN SJG core 1st ed., p. 161.) So yes, Calabite head explodey is covered! :) And nobody but Lucifer (and naturally assumed as well, God) can tell it was you. You'd think Asmodeus would have internal affairs problems with this floating about. (Or perhaps it's a deliberate blind eye to trip up his own servitors. Maybe he likes the Game of it, and uses such chases to stay sharp. He's not a nice guy.) Quote:
I think this is interesting because it reinforces the corrupting drive in Shedim. They resonate to a singular perspective and try to force everyone else to submit to seeing things their own way. But there's nothing there to bully in a cadaver, so they get frustrated and grumpy. Why go back and look through the same dead eyes? Sounds like a fun role play angle to tempt Saminga Shedim out of constant corpse walking. Quote:
This is a delicate balancing act. Elohim do what needs to be done; if there's pleasurable overlap, that's nice, but don't act on it. However they may see pleasure as disturbing, for fear of reversing the order of things -- which is its own feedback loop if unchecked. A tight wire balancing act, it is: enjoys something, but can't let that pleasure override what needs to be done; afraid to enjoy something, but cannot let that fear override what needs to be done. The easiest response for them would be to do what needs to be done then, and later during down time (where they do not have immediate things that need to be done) reflect lovingly on what was a nice time. In a way that's also disturbing, as you might see Elohim relaxing in heaven "blissing out" and swapping tales on memories of torturing demons. Detachment is a good word for players to focus on to avoid tripping up. Last edited by Azel; 03-18-2014 at 03:08 AM. Reason: bad citation, 2 am grammar |
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03-18-2014, 07:30 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
I would let a Cherub attune to her own vessel without dissonance if it were part of a plan to allow herself to be possessed and then track a Shedite back to its secret hideout. :)
Edit to add: Okay okay, Shedim can't possess celestials with their resonance, but Shedim do get a bonus to the Song of Possession, IIRC! |
03-18-2014, 09:00 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
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03-19-2014, 05:35 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South of the Town across from the City by the Bay
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
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So technically you are absolutely right, a demolitions expert can set and detonate explosives without symphonic disturbance. But to use it willingly against animated targets would be a breach of professionalism, along with being criminally and civilly actionable. To breach with intent, the Symphony will know; to breach accidentally, the Symphony will let it slide because it looks reasonable. You can't fake it or lie to yourself, either. The role is a question of judgment, which heavily deals with due diligence (precaution). Now if your role is a bomb terrorist, then yes! You may gleefully set and detonate explosives without disturbance. But that also attracts mortal as well as eventual celestial attention, and you'll likely move to the front of the line for role elimination. Great power attracts great attention. |
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03-19-2014, 08:02 PM | #9 |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
Except, possibly, for a Balseraph, whose very nature is to lie to itself and the Symphony at large. But that's moving away from the question of Calabim, who are a completely different breed of crazy. :)
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
03-20-2014, 04:20 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South of the Town across from the City by the Bay
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Re: Doing strange things with Resonances
Balseraph have a personal symphony, but it only goes so far. A role is beyond their range, as it is that which the Symphony sees as a natural part of itself. IIRC in Liber Servitorum, Balseraphs may fake a role, but for only for a very short time. Further, though they can marginally fake a Role, to further fake their Role (or fake their fake Role,) steps beyond Symphonic credulity. Symphony looks for long term presence, routines, and naturalness.
If you imagine things happening with an invisible man, it's quick to see that which will create disturbance. Cars don't drive and get into accidents all by themselves, as if by an invisible man. However doctors do drive cars on the way to work. The latter Role, worked by years of repeated effort tying it into the symphony, passes the Symphony test. A celestial can slip into it as a mask. Demolition experts blow stuff up. Demolitions experts don't shrug their due diligence to "accidentally graze" targeted parties. A terrorist gleefully does due diligence to blow up targeted parties directly. If you want a Role to cover up explosions, there's one already available in the Symphony. So trying to skirt intent by contorting one to supplant the other (and its consequences) defeats the spirit of the game's and GM's judgment. |
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resonances, roles |
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