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Old 08-30-2013, 02:22 PM   #1
Engurrand
 
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Default USS Macon (ZRS-5)

-this post has been updated to reflect fixes suggested later in the thread-

I need some help stating up the USS Macon for use in a TL6 pulp adventure game. I figured I'd start with the real stats and then add pulp by buying additional capacities with CP as per Supers p.84.

I'm not overly familiar with vehicles in GURPS. This is my first foray. After some research here, here and here I've got realistic stats as:

Code:
ST/HP           190
Hnd/SR          -4/3
HT	        10
Move	        2/43
LWt	        180t
Load	        72t
SM	        13
Occ	        93+7 A (or thereabouts)
DR	        1
Range           10,500
Cost	        $34.5m
Locations	S,Ar,s,
Stall	        0
There are an awful lot of things I'm not sure about.
The Load, for example: -resolved and included in the above block- Wikipedia gives the ship's useful load at 72t and 'tonnage' at 108 tons. Assuming by 'tonnage' it means something akin to loaded weight, that would give an empty weigh of 36 tons (that's not very much, but then, it is an airship). Somebody commented in the airship.net webpage that the Macon could carry 50 tons of fuel. I couldn't find anything competing with that so 72 useful tons minus 50t fuel gives the 22 ton load I give above. Does that seem right? (not forgetting the crew takes up 10 tons, and the compliment of 5 fighters takes up another 6, leaving only 6 tons for cargo)

The ST: -resolved- How does one normally calculate the strength? I put 60 pts in payload and calculated a strength that would make the payload equal to the 22t load. Higher strength/lower payload ratios give the same load for more point cost. I chose high payload low strength because I can only imagine blimp's don't have much capacity for exceeding their payload, but at this point, I'm just making stuff up and would appreciate some guidance.

Hnd/Sr: I took that straight off the blimp on B.465.

Locations: The Macon has 13 helium bags, 8 engines, a superstructure, a retractable arm (trapeze), an aircraft bay, a forward control pod (bridge), an emergency control pod, a mess hall, a kitchen, a radio-room, and an unknown number of quarters and other rooms. If I were building a custom hit location table, I'd put most of those on it, but I'm not sure how to represent them on the existing vehicle hit location table.

Cost: -resolved- I found somewhere a reference that the Macon cost 2.5 million in 1934 dollars. To get the cost above I converted that to 2004 dollars, using this website.

The basic build of the Macon, listed below, is 211 CP.

Code:
Machine Meta-trait      [25]
Compartmentalized mind (dedicated controls) [60]
Doesn't sleep [20]
Enhanced Move (Air), handling penalty -4 [48]
Extra ST 180 (size -80%) [360]
Flight [40]
Illumination [1]
Payload [200]
Telecommunications (radio) (secure) [12]

Maintenance, (requires Mechanic (Airship)) 3-5 people, daily, [-30]
No legs (aerial) [0]
No Manipulators [-50]
Numb [-20]
Reduced IQ 10 [-200]
Reduced DX 10 [-200]
Restricted Diet (gasoline, helium, common) [-20]
Social Stigma (valuable property) [-10]
Wealth (Dead broke) [-25]
What have I missed or messed?

So if I understand the rule on Supers p.85 correctly, your PC must pay the 23.8m$ pricetag, and then ignore the first 211 cp (it's basic cost) on it's character sheet when paying for it as an ally?

Thank you for your help!

Last edited by Engurrand; 08-30-2013 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Updating for fixes later in the thread.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

Is there a reason you need the full stats? Most vehicles just need some basic numbers...
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Is there a reason you need the full stats? Most vehicles just need some basic numbers...
It is the basic stats, listed at the top of the post, which I am uncertain about.

The rest isn't as important. Stating it as a character only matters if you intend to use the Vehicles rule on Supers p.84.

Even then you could probably ignore it's existing CP cost. All you need is the difference between what you're paying for with money and the version you're buying as an ally (if I understand correctly). But it's nice to know what you're working with when you start adding abilities.

Last edited by Engurrand; 08-30-2013 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

I guess my point is, under what circumstances do you see these being important? The load and speed are a matter of record, and taking it into combat is pretty close to suicide anyway - even without flammable hydrogen, these ships were essentially just targets. Do you anticipate engaging in the type of low-speed combat or maneuvering where the handling will matter?

And I would not bother statting it up - I do not personally recommend doing that for anything unless it is (a) irreplaceable and (b) capable of independent action. It is not an Ally any more than your Toyota is - it is just something you buy, steal, borrow, or get from a Patron.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post

There are an awful lot of things I'm not sure about.
The Load, for example: Wikipedia gives the ship's useful load at 72t and 'tonnage' at 108 tons. Assuming by 'tonnage' it means something akin to loaded weight, that would give an empty weigh of 36 tons (that's not very much, but then, it is an airship).
Tonnage in this context is actually a measure of volume, rather than mass.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
I guess my point is, under what circumstances do you see these being important? The load and speed are a matter of record, and taking it into combat is pretty close to suicide anyway - even without flammable hydrogen, these ships were essentially just targets. Do you anticipate engaging in the type of low-speed combat or maneuvering where the handling will matter?

And I would not bother statting it up - I do not personally recommend doing that for anything unless it is (a) irreplaceable and (b) capable of independent action. It is not an Ally any more than your Toyota is - it is just something you buy, steal, borrow, or get from a Patron.
I can't predict how or when I might need to know the handling bonus or other numerical feature of this vehicle, but the possible instances are legion. My first objective is to make a realistic vehicle stat block, which, considering the general appeal of airships in fiction, is something I would expect others to get some utility out of.

As to building it as a character, that is the recommendation of Supers, for vehicles which are more than just purchases. Let us assume for this discussion that any character who uses money to buy a vehicle and spends points on it as an Ally to enhance it, as recommended in that book, plans it to be irreplaceable.

It seems to me this rule is designed to represent the batmobile and the millennium falcon - vehicles which are an important part of a character concept and not just something you buy, steal, borrow, or get from a Patron.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Tonnage in this context is actually a measure of volume, rather than mass.
/sigh. I was afraid of somethig like that. Any suggestions for how to find a more useful number?
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

It appears that I was actually wrong; this source indicates that 108 tons is indeed the dead weight of the ship, meaning the weight with fuel and crew, but not cargo. With a full 72 tons of cargo, the total mass would be 200 tons.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
It appears that I was actually wrong; this source indicates that 108 tons is indeed the dead weight of the ship, meaning the weight with fuel and crew, but not cargo. With a full 72 tons of cargo, the total mass would be 200 tons.
Nice! So it's empty weight is 108t minus the weight of the crew (gurps gives this as 10t) minus the weight of fuel (50t unless I can find something else). 108-10-50=48

It's loaded weight is... 108+72=180 ? Where the extra 20?

72 tons of useful payload means my estimate for the vehicle's strength is way off. ST 269 with payload 60 gives the necessary payload of 144k lbs.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
I
The ST: How does one normally calculate the strength? !
I believe the "normal" procedure to be to take the weight of the vehicle and calculate its' HP from the formula on p.558. Then set ST equal to HP.

You probably want the structural dead weight for this number not including fuel and cargo.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: USS Macon (ZRS-5)

Being a Naval unit of the interwar years, it likely uses long tons, if you are figuring the weight of any of your components in pounds, and then converting to tons, this maybe part of you extra 20 tons.
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