Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2020, 07:11 AM   #1
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Wizards without Staves

Has anyone here every played (or GM'd for) an effective wizard who didn't know the staff spell using the legacy edition? If so what was that wizards play style and spell list like?
Kieddicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 07:42 AM   #2
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

Calen, Elf wizard, age 20
ST 6, DX 12, IQ 14, MA 12
Talents include: Literacy, Unarmed Combat III
Spells include: Acid Touch, Drain Strength, 3-Hex Fire, 4-Hex Illusion
Languages: Common, Elvish
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-1), Kick (2d-4, -1 DX)
Armor: UC III stops 2 hits and is -2 to be hit.

She shall learn Staff II or higher, once she has the spare XP for Mana. She is already maxed out on plausible advancement in unarmed combat other than building up DX to improve shield rush and aimed shots.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 09:44 AM   #3
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
Has anyone here every played (or GM'd for) an effective wizard who didn't know the staff spell using the legacy edition? If so what was that wizards play style and spell list like?
That's the problem, though... why would any player forego the new STAFF spells? They are simply too good to pass up. A wizard w/o a staff (or more specifically, the mana they provide) is at a distinct disadvantage under the Legacy rules.
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 09:48 AM   #4
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
She shall learn Staff II or higher, once she has the spare XP for Mana. She is already maxed out on plausible advancement in unarmed combat other than building up DX to improve shield rush and aimed shots.
That is a cool set up but I am looking for characters that have no intention of ever learning Staff or at least not till they are well past 50-points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
That's the problem, though... why would any player forego the new STAFF spells? They are simply too good to pass up. A wizard w/o a staff (or more specifically, the mana they provide) is at a distinct disadvantage under the Legacy rules.
That is why I was asking. I do plan on making a full discussion post about solutions to the topic in the House-Rules board.
Kieddicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2020, 10:05 PM   #5
JohnPaulB
 
JohnPaulB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Portland, Maine
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
That's the problem, though... why would any player forego the new STAFF spells? They are simply too good to pass up. A wizard w/o a staff (or more specifically, the mana they provide) is at a distinct disadvantage under the Legacy rules.
If you envision your wizard character to be a wizard that doesn't use a staff, then they don't use a staff, even if it seems too good to pass up or not. Simple really.
__________________
- Hail Melee

Fantasy Chess: A chess game with combat.
Don't just take the square, Fight for it!
https://www.shadowhex.com

Last edited by JohnPaulB; 12-15-2020 at 09:10 PM.
JohnPaulB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2020, 04:48 PM   #6
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
Has anyone here every played (or GM'd for) an effective wizard who didn't know the staff spell using the legacy edition? If so what was that wizards play style and spell list like?
Yes, I have a current one. Started at 32 points, and is now up to 34 points. His spell list is:

Literacy
Illusion
Persuasiveness
Blur (1/1)
Aid
Speed Movement (2>4t)
Sleep (3)
Reverse Missiles (2/1)
Mage Sight (2/1>min)
Analyze Magic
3-Hex Fire (2)
Fireball

Uses a clever danger-avoiding strategy. In combat, casts spells from behind allies and carefully avoids exposing self to danger as much as possible. Supports the fighters. I've had good occasion to use all of the spells.

I tend to think of the staff zap attacks as a dangerous thing to try to use except in desperate situations that are best avoided as much as possible.

The staff mana thing is the real thing that makes all aspiring powerful wizards probably want to learn about staffs, or feel foolish eventually if they don't. Though if you have enough assistants casting Aid and/or powerstones, you could save some spell-learning for other spells by avoiding Staff.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2020, 07:02 PM   #7
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

I feel like the overwhelming power of the staff zap attack is a 'white room argument' thing but not a real play thing. The main PC wizard in my current campaign does carry a staff and values it as a reserve of mana, but is not remotely interested in zapping people. You have to get really close to zap, and when you do it is very unlikely your attack will put your foe on the ground. And now you are 1 hex away from someone who is angry and probably much better at close combat than you are. I mean, it's cool that it is in there and i'm sure there are situations where it is useful, but it's not a game changer.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2020, 07:33 PM   #8
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

If the party faces a foe who is only harmed by a magic weapon or worse yet isn't even harmed by a magic weapon then that one staff can be your only hope of victory.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2020, 06:42 AM   #9
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I mean, it's cool that it is in there and i'm sure there are situations where it is useful, but [zapping is] not a game changer.
I would have thought that it might frequently be the parties best attack against heavily armoured foes - the tanks can engage and defend while the wizard spends a couple of turns blowing holes in them?
MikMod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2020, 07:32 AM   #10
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Wizards without Staves

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
I would have thought that it might frequently be the parties best attack against heavily armoured foes - the tanks can engage and defend while the wizard spends a couple of turns blowing holes in them?
Armor piercing only starts at IQ 13's Staff of Striking, like say...

Uskeche, Elf wizard, age 20
ST 6, DX 13 (11), IQ 13, MA 12 (10)
Talents: Acrobatics, Literacy
Spells include: 3-Hex Fire, Illusion, Reverse Missiles, Staff III, Staff to Snake
Languages: Common, Elvish
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-4)
Armor: Leather armor stops two hits
Magic Items:
• Staff III: 6' holly staff, value $20 (1d, 1d occult)
Special note: This pyromaniac calmly responds to slimes and vermin by casting fire in her own hex and then stepping through that hex until the critters are fried.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.