[MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Another option, if it fits Icelander's criteria, is to have something like a hollowed out laptop case sitting on his passenger seat, with whatever actual weapons he prefers to use kept inside.

Sneaky. The problem with things like this is if the weapon has to be used, taking out of the case might take too long. It could also be viewed as intent to use it as a weapon.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Another option, if it fits Icelander's criteria, is to have something like a hollowed out laptop case sitting on his passenger seat, with whatever actual weapons he prefers to use kept inside.

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Sneaky. The problem with things like this is if the weapon has to be used, taking out of the case might take too long. It could also be viewed as intent to use it as a weapon.

For this particular exercise, the NPC in question has a legally owned handgun on him in the car, another legally-owned handgun in a locked handgun storage box installed in the front area of the vehicle, several other legally-owned firearms in a locked gun case in the trunk, plenty of tools in the car usable with Axe/Mace or Shortsword and so forth.

However, there are places where you cannot legally carry a handgun, even if you have a Texas LTC and are in a state with a reciprocity agreement with Texas. Depending on states, that might be within a certain distance from a school, churches, National Park, etc. It also always applies within a business that makes 51+% of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages and it may apply in all bars in certain states or cities. Any establishment with a sign banning concealed carry also counts, obviously.

The character plans to follow the law, unless he has actually noticed someone following him. That being said, he also wants to have something that is perfectly legal in every state, innocuous enough to carry with him, but still useful to Parry with Knife skill at no worse than -1, as well as being able to make attacks that are more effective than bare-handed.

So, if he has to go in and pay at a truck stop where there's a sign that concealed carry is not allowed, what can he have with him that is not really a weapon, but can be used, in a pinch, as weapon-adjacent?

I'm thinking a fairly small flashlight.

[Prince Charon]

Depending on the era, a good-quality slide rule of sufficient size could be used as a SHORT BATON (IIRC, this was mentioned in Steampunk, or possibly one of the High-Tech editions), and would be completely innocuous if you look nerdy enough. Of course, it probably wouldn't be a very good slide rule afterward.

Also depending on the era, some laptop batteries would work as (fairly heavy) SHORT BATONs. I know, because my first laptop had a battery of that type (long, balanced, and shaped like a thick, flattened cylinder), though fortunately, I was never put in a position to need to confirm its utility at a weapon. I wouldn't want to put it back in the laptop after using it in a fight, though.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Depending on the era, a good-quality slide rule of sufficient size could be used as a SHORT BATON (IIRC, this was mentioned in Steampunk, or possibly one of the High-Tech editions), and would be completely innocuous if you look nerdy enough. Of course, it probably wouldn't be a very good slide rule afterward.

Also depending on the era, some laptop batteries would work as (fairly heavy) SHORT BATONs. I know, because my first laptop had a battery of that type (long, balanced, and shaped like a thick, flattened cylinder), though fortunately, I was never put in a position to need to confirm its utility at a weapon. I wouldn't want to put it back in the laptop after using it in a fight, though.

It's just over a year ago; end of 2018, beginning of 2019.

The character is fine with ruining any mundane object if he has to use it as an improvised weapon. After all, even if it weren't ruined, it would be taken into evidence, possibly for years.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

The good thing about an actual baton for a car weapon is that there are lots of excuses to have a 12-15" wooden (ok, select coppiced ash carefully dried) stick in your car. "Oh, I use that to prop the lid of our garage freezer open, I must have dumped it in the car after the last grocery run."

Indeed.

I think that some light wrenches or a light tire irons might also be SHORT BATON or BATON, rather than the KNOBBED CLUB or SMALL MACE that heavier examples would be.

I'd be inclined to make even shorter balanced bludgeons than the SHORT BATON sw-2 cr and thr cr, analogous to the LARGE KNIFE vs. LONG KNIFE relationship. Lower than thr cr would be worse than a fist-load, so that's a lower bound, but without at least some length and leverage, I figure sw-1 cr is too generous.

There is a certain point at which an object makes a limited enough weapon so that most people would accept it as something used for improvised self-defense and not taken along as a deliberately planned weapon. I'm basically looking for something on that spectrum, i.e. less effective than a real baton or tire iron, but also something that even a moderately competent defense attorney could argue that a person had on them for perfectly reasonable reasons and most cops would be inclined to agree on that.

A flashlight that does sw cr or better and is stout enough to be used for repeated blows might indeed be viewed as a flashlight carried with intent to use it as a weapon. But at some point, flashlights are small enough so that they are not regarded as 'weapons' as much as 'flashlight someone happened to use to hit someone with'. I don't know if that line starts at sw-1 cr or sw-2 cr, but it has got to be around there somewhere.

Originally Posted by Polydamas

A mallet would be a good choice for the knobbed club as a car weapon, again "I was fencing my yard and it fell out of the bin when I was unloading supplies, I had been meaning to put it away for days."

Yeah, I see this character as wanting to have at least one KNOBBED CLUB in the car, just in case. Well, probably several in the tool kit in the trunk, but at least one should be up front in the car.

Also, this kind of thought experiment is useful for characters in modern campaigns in general. I estimate that every one of my characters, a good bit of PCs in campaigns where I am the GM and not a few NPCs have had to think about good innocuous objects to turn to the purpose of improvised weapons.

Originally Posted by Polydamas

In the old country and the new country, weapon carriage laws are all about intent. If you want to wait outside a bar with a heavy object, you can't tell the police officer that "its not a weapon officer, just a baseball bat."

Just so.

But at a certain point, it becomes much more difficult to argue that a given object in that situation was clearly being carried as a weapon. That correlates pretty well with its utility as a weapon, of course, which is why I'm looking at the less effective, lighter and smaller bludgeons, not the obvious good 'improvised' weapons that are actually just decent weapons, like baseball bat, tire iron, heavy wrench, etc.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Icelander

But at a certain point, it becomes much more difficult to argue that a given object in that situation was clearly being carried as a weapon. That correlates pretty well with its utility as a weapon, of course, which is why I'm looking at the less effective, lighter and smaller bludgeons, not the obvious good 'improvised' weapons that are actually just decent weapons, like baseball bat, tire iron, heavy wrench, etc.

Well, what they can carry will depend heavily on their intended persona and alibi. A carpenter or electrician heading to work can carry things which would be grounds for suspicion in someone just hanging around. A camper in a national park can carry a Staff, Hatchet, and Large Knife without raising too many questions from the police/rangers.

Anything 30 cm/a foot or longer and sturdy enough to use as a weapon will need some justification if you end up using it.

Also: if it comes to court, I would expect the prosecution to bring up that the accused had a small arsenal in his vehicle, even if he did not use that arsenal for mayhem. In terms of intent, it is evidence. In the old country, there are heavy restrictions on carrying firearms in your vehicle for exactly that reason (in the middle ages, they had "no, you can't say that your ten strong servants are just carrying your swords for you" clauses).

[Polydamas]

In short, I would go about this the other way around.

In general, objects which are long, strong, and heavy enough to be an effective lever and bludgeon are enough of a bother to carry that you need a plausible excuse and can't easily conceal it. People don't just walk around with big heavy steel flashlights unless they need them for the job they are doing right now.

Most experienced cops can see the affordances of anything that can be used as a weapon and are used to the obvious excuses for carrying a concealed weapon (a friend was once held up with a screwdriver because that is not a knife). So either you stick with things under 25 cm long that fit in a pants pocket, with stats similar to the Small Knife, or the tool should follow from your intended persona.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

In short, I would go about this the other way around.

In general, objects which are long, strong, and heavy enough to be an effective lever and bludgeon are enough of a bother to carry that you need a plausible excuse and can't easily conceal it. People don't just walk around with big heavy steel flashlights unless they need them for the job they are doing right now.

Most experienced cops can see the affordances of anything that can be used as a weapon and are used to the obvious excuses for carrying a concealed weapon (a friend was once held up with a screwdriver because that is not a knife). So either you stick with things under 25 cm long that fit in a pants pocket, with stats similar to the Small Knife, or the tool should follow from your intended persona.

The persona would be a fairly normal motorist or tourist, a middle-aged guy of the kind who has a multi-tool, duct tape, string, WD-40, notebook, pencil, disinfectant, aspirin, petroleum jelly, Ace bandages and a range of other mostly harmless things that make up the small version Personal Basics and the most basic of first-aid gear on him at all times.

A flashlight seems to fit with that. Not a 2-lb one, more like a 0.5-lb one.

[Donny Brook]

Here you go -- carry one or a couple of these (or even slightly smaller). In original commercial packaging it should be quite innocuous. Screw a flanged nut down to the bottom of the threading and you've got a little hilt too and a way to make the hand-hold longer and more comfortable.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The persona would be a fairly normal motorist or tourist, a middle-aged guy of the kind who has a multi-tool, duct tape, string, WD-40, notebook, pencil, disinfectant, aspirin, petroleum jelly, Ace bandages and a range of other mostly harmless things that make up the small version Personal Basics and the most basic of first-aid gear on him at all times.

A flashlight seems to fit with that. Not a 2-lb one, more like a 0.5-lb one.

A big flashlight, the kind that takes roughly 1" diameter batteries, sounds like a good choice for the character to keep in a hip pocket (or in cargo pants?)