06-13-2018, 09:32 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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For non-hoplology geeks, "let-off" is the force needed to draw a bow at a given percentage of full draw. Pulleys and cams give you a huge mechanical advantage when using a modern compound bow, especially as you increase the percentage of draw length to full draw. If a traditional "self" (i.e., one piece of wood carefully selected and shaped) longbow has letoff curve which is pretty much linear or even exponential, a compound bow has a letoff curve which sort of resembles a bell curve. That means its actually easier to hold a compound bow at full draw than partially drawn, which is the opposite of a traditional bow. In turn, that makes it easy to wait or aim for long periods of time without having to ready the bow by drawing it. Additionally, stabilizers, improved arrow rests, advanced arrows, string releases, and other gadgets correct just about every potential problem with releasing the arrow and getting it to fly straight. That makes compound bows incredibly accurate compared to traditional bows both for target shooting and "stand" hunting. I don't know how much better they are for shooting moving targets on the fly, since they're usually a bit heavier and the stabilizers slightly slow your ability to track a fast-moving target. Arguably, Bow (Compound) could be a separate Easy skill which defaults to Bow (Traditional) at -4 and vice-versa. |
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06-14-2018, 12:54 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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Different sights, -2; Different letoff curve, -2; Stabilisers vs no stabilisers, -2; using a string releaser, -2. That's -8 if you just pick up a modern bow without having seen or used one before. The difference is that eight hours of practice gets rid of all of it. Alternatively, it's all part of a TL penalty, TL8 vs TL0, and is thus also a -8 penalty, though Bow is a skill that isn't considered a /TL skill in the RAW. I, as a house rule, generally consider TL penalties to DX skills as being familiarity penalties (except when a roll is required against the skill off IQ).
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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06-14-2018, 01:17 AM | #33 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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The only difference between my recurve and my compound is the left off curve*, and honestly I wouldn't even require an hour of practice for someone to get over that going from recurve/straight bow to compound, but the other direction would be brutal. I mean, I was a bit shocked the first time I broke over a compound, but not so much that I couldn't still shoot straight. * No sights, no string releaser, no stabilizers, no fancy doodads, they're both universal grips (though they are both set for a left handed grip). Quote:
Coming back to this. I might do compound bows as basically having 'elven' bow for free. Or maybe halving the penalty for using an over ST bow up to a certain point. Last edited by evileeyore; 06-14-2018 at 01:26 AM. |
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06-14-2018, 01:34 AM | #34 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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Last edited by vicky_molokh; 06-14-2018 at 11:06 AM. |
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06-14-2018, 03:09 AM | #35 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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I thought that was the case but started second guessing myself, years of experience on the internet has left me a bit gun shy of making 100% absolute positive statements! ;-)
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course Last edited by Tomsdad; 06-14-2018 at 04:33 AM. |
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06-14-2018, 04:18 AM | #36 | |||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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Cheers, no worries Quote:
Given a lack of decent armour I can see how it would be physically possible, it's more that I question two people will be in the right position at the right time for it to happen very often! But weird, unlikely things happen! Quote:
But that said it's not something I'm that worried about. As you say arrows will go through some targets depending on what they hit on their journey so it's the end result that matters not how the system get's there! Quote:
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Here it is: One thing I do is allow Archers to leverage their Skill in order to use heavier bows. I basically allow a roll against ST based Bow skill. Success gives MoS x 5% as an increase on Basic lift for calculating Pull. No success means no additional benefit. This means that a good bowmen can draw quicker (in one turn not two for bows that would be otherwise over that particular threshold) and can draw bows heavier than their ST alone would allow. It is another roll though, so I also allow people to "take 11" which is to assume they rolled 11 and calculate a set bonus from there. e.g a Skill 14 bowman could apply an extra 15% on his BL without bothering to roll. However I have to say more recently I've gone with the technique idea that was later in the thread. Also that is an old house rule stuff like Trained ST might well be a better fit now.
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course Last edited by Tomsdad; 06-14-2018 at 04:36 AM. |
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06-14-2018, 11:08 AM | #37 | |||
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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In some cases, however, going high tech to low-tech causes more problems than going the other way. Buri the TL3 Mongol horse archer is probably going to figure out how to use a TL8 compound bow, or turn on a stove pretty quickly. OTOH, Kyle the TL8 bow-hunter is maybe going to have problems using a thumb ring string release or string a horse and sinew recurve, or turn fresh horse blood into something you'd want to eat. |
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06-14-2018, 11:22 AM | #38 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1rQpqIbBsU (Also really nice example of how easy it is for a low ST person to use a hunting weight compound bow and still inflict enough damage to not just kill but also overpenetrate! In GURPS terms, that's a hit to the Vitals on the first deer, inflicting ~15+ HP of basic damage. Then, overpenetration to the second deer inflicting 5+ HP to the vitals.) For extra damage from a CH applying to overpenetration, I was thinking of a double lung shot where the arrow basically pushes through air rather than meat for part of its track through the victim's body. That's an easy way to inflict a lot of damage on a living target while the projectile still maintains a lot of kinetic energy. Similar to something I came up with back in the day, but a bit more realistic in terms of paying attention to actual draw weights. And, like my HR, superceded by the Strongbow perk. |
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06-15-2018, 03:48 AM | #39 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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Of course the basic point is the human body is not homogenous when it comes to offering resistance to a penetrating object passing through it whether or no the tissues involved are deemed as vital by GURPS. As well as the torso not only being not homogenous when it comes to offering resistance, but often not of uniform thickness either. And that before we eve get into what is a HP. Honestly overpenetration threshold = 1x HP is good enough IMO! For me the fact that you get 3x injury for each point of penetration (and no overpentartin cap) is the system allowing you to inflict a lot of damage per penetration. *and that before we get into comparative anatomy i,e deer vs. human not just in body layout once penetration has occurred but in likely angles of penetration! Yeah it worked well (IMO) but it is an extra roll every round (and I also use on target at times so that can be an extra roll when aiming as well).
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course |
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06-15-2018, 01:17 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Question about Muscle-powered Range Weapons...
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