07-10-2018, 10:31 PM | #111 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: The Problem With Magic
Because those skills are usable there. And the environment is different enough to require a separate specialization.
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I pitched that rule out in 3e also. Quote:
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When Timeslip was written the author probably didn't think someone would cast it on an enemy because at their core Blocking spells are defenses, equal to Dodge, Block, and Parry and you would be hard pressed to find ways to Dodge, Block, or Parry for enemy and turn it to your advantage. So if you are routinely doing this you are breaking the spirit of the rules. Quote:
Not seeing the issue, unless the non-mages are sore they aren't doing the loot grabbing? In which case why aren't they playing mages? Quote:
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I'll hammer this point one last time than I'll shut up about it: If you give awesome stuff to only one Character type, you are saying "Everyone should play this awesome Character type". Quote:
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But it was made as a spell way back when and as 4e is largely a 3e port with some edits, it stayed. |
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07-10-2018, 10:38 PM | #112 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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That what a GM is for. Not seeing the issue here. |
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07-11-2018, 12:22 AM | #113 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: God's Own Country
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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Share Vitality is exactly the spell you are talking about. Also note: Time Out is an Area spell, you can't cast it 'on' an opponent. Casting it where an opponent is standing gives them a dodge roll.
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Paul May | MIB 1138 (on hiatus) Last edited by Kax; 07-11-2018 at 12:25 AM. |
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07-11-2018, 01:09 AM | #114 | ||||||||||||||
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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With something like DR 10 (say, nice heavy plate mail), I know the effect on the party. The warrior might try to just hack through it or use it against them (by tripping them and letting the weight hold them down), the rogue will look for chinks or into disarming, the wizard and face will use abilities making the assumption that the target is effectively immune to damage. It affects the whole party but it affects the one who can overcome it less. Similar to a darkness penalty about affects everyone the same and each would come up with different solutions. Quote:
I do accept it's not the intention and cheese, but then what is the correct set up? Does the target know I'm casting a spell that will protect them? If they know it's being cast, do they know it's not the court wizard protecting them from an enemy attack? Do they now know they are being attacked and can defend themselves? Quote:
But then it creates other issues; I don't actually know how capable any character in the party will be (will the wizard give extra ST, use Lockmaster to help the rogue save time with a handful of locks, heal some wounds, end up spending too much and not be able to do anything, something else?) and separating the wizard from the others (largely by accident or by player choice, not the GM's) makes it hard to determine how strong any encounter (not even just combat) should be, and adding in anti-magic will make it's problems more obvious ("No mana zone? Boss is actually going to be weak.") Quote:
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07-11-2018, 01:10 AM | #115 | |||||
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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But if I'm the GM, I don't have any guidelines for that. When is it correct to hose a single character? Quote:
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B) At some point someone will use it, maybe a lot, without it necessarily being obvious how to unbreak it. This would especially suck if the character concept was based around it (which is often how it happens) Quote:
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07-11-2018, 01:46 AM | #116 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: The Problem With Magic
You limit mages by limiting what spells they can cast
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07-11-2018, 03:46 AM | #117 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: The Problem With Magic
Thank you! I looked for it to suggest it and somehow skimmed right over it!
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Don't put your big Fighter spotlight fight in an area that can be snuck past with no reason to go in and have that fight! As I said previously sometimes it's a case of "If you want the treasure, those 20 orcs need to be killed because they are wearing it, so kill those dudes or go home empty handed". Quote:
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Is the mage's Player getting frustrated that half the locks are all anti-magiced? That his mind magic is running up against hard Wills? Then tone it back a bit. is everyone else annoyed at the mage constantly spotlight hogging? Then dial it up a bit. Quote:
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Or rather, why not? You know what the possibilities are. Just set to them and adapt as needed (since it sounds like you aren't a proponent of Old School). Quote:
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Which is why most mages in my experience tend to be 'specialists' (focused in on 3-4 primary colleges) and not pure generalists. Quote:
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* Even at the outset the GM said "Are you sure you want the Seeks and not the Purifys where you can take them?" Only used one of those Seek spells (Seek Air) in game. And it was iffy as to whether it was actually useful or not when I used it. Quote:
If you let the Players pick stuff by buying it, you'll likely find really weird items like the Pot of Cooking and Anti-Vermin tents of Cool and Heat. Quote:
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1 - Setting rewards where being sneaky is out rewarding being a thug. This leaves you Warrior feeling unnecessary (maybe?). 2 - Not enough challenge on the Wizard. Low Mana areas are natures way of saying "Slow the mage's roll", not stop it. A few locks he can't just magic away, a few walls he can't pas through, enemies he can't invisible past. These make nice challenges for the other Characters to deal with. (Even if he's still doing his part by buffing them!) 3 - Give the non-Wizards some magic items. Magic is the Force and it's not cool if only the Jedi get to play with it. Quote:
It's a rough balance. I know I screw it up all the time. Quote:
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Unless it's a Charm, and even then. Red Flags. Quote:
My recommendation, for your next campaign grab Pyramid 3-60 Dungeon Fantasy III for the Wizardry Refined article. It rewrites the prereq chains and changes some spells to better fit the Dungeon Fantasy theme... I think using that strictly for a campaign (or even a handful of adventures) might give you ideas on how to make adjustments of your own to beat Magic into a shape you prefer. I also think you should try running an Old School game. Set an arbitrary minimum numbers of games (like 10 or so) so your Players don't just argue you out of it the first time a Character dies. you might like it. Your Players might like it. And even if you all hate it, you'll likely come away having learned something about how to balance your games. Nothing teaches 'balance' like brutally unbalanced Character TPKs. |
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07-11-2018, 05:39 AM | #118 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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Per Ardua Per Astra! Ancora Imparo |
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07-11-2018, 06:06 AM | #119 | |
On Notice
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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I was just using the skills presented; Wildcard skills by their very nature cover every skill under that category. If you think a Wildcard skills has a limited skill set you are a) somehow setting up the skill wrong or b) you don't understand what skills the Wildcard skill covers, Megadungeon Knowledge! (11): eliminates 5 presented skills Replaces Archaeology (Megadungeon), Architecture (Megadungeon), Area Knowledge (Megadungeon), Hidden Lore (Megadungeon), History (Megadungeon), Survival (Megadungeon), and everything else Megadungeon related. Heck if there was some kind of overall administration to the Megadungeon things like Administration (Megadungeon) are possible. Moreover, it would eliminate penalties like the -2 for Camouflage (Megadungeon). That is just the tip of what something like Megadungeon Knowledge! can do. Connoisseur! (11): eliminates 4 presented skills Replaces Connoisseur (Alcohol), Connoisseur (Art), Connoisseur (Coinage), Connoisseur (Gems/Jewelry), Connoisseur (Magical Items), and every other form of Connoisseur in the game such as Dance, Fashion, Literature, Music, Wine, and what ever else fits under "art and luxury items". Last edited by maximara; 07-11-2018 at 08:01 AM. |
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07-11-2018, 07:07 AM | #120 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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This brings up why the PCs in my campaign have tons of points in skills - they want a decent level in the skill 'right now', so they drop a point into it. Also, they want to actually have the skill, so they can default off it, and more recently so they can work a job using it.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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