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Old 12-02-2017, 07:53 PM   #41
GranitePenguin
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

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Originally Posted by Dave Crowell View Post
My comment on this was born from one of the Nightfall scenarios in which the AI
seemed to "forget" that it needed to prevent me from fulfilling my victory conditions. It allowed me to slip past it and attack objectives while it sent its units against my slower but harder hitting units in my rear. I would have expected a human to go after my units that were directly attacking the objective buldings instead.
Yup. It's way too easy to bait the AI.
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:47 PM   #42
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

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Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman View Post
Would the text suggestion in Bold be a good addition for clarity?

When all its AP weapons are gone, or all it's movement has been used, an Ogre/SHVY can no longer reduce infantry in this way.
Yes, I think this is an improvement.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:53 PM   #43
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

I think that's redundant. If the Ogre can't move, of course it can't reduce INF by driving over it.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:53 AM   #44
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

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I think that's redundant. If the Ogre can't move, of course it can't reduce INF by driving over it.
I forget, is an infantry unit that is overrun by an Ogre under Ogre Ramming Rules forced to move out of the hex if it survives? If not, there's a rare but not theoretically impossible corner case where an Ogre uses its one and only movement point to reduce an Infantry unit, fails to kill it with guns, and loses the last movement point in the enemy fire phase. There's now an Ogre in the same hex as the infantry, without the capability to reduce it in the movement phase.

(This is practically impossible, since nobody shoots at AP guns, so the Infantry will get mowed if it doesn't move.)
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:02 AM   #45
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

By Ogre "ramming" rules, you can have an INF unit of some size in the same hex as the Ogre at the end of the turn. The game on Steam regularly does this. By G.E.V. "overrun" rules, one or the other should be gone.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:09 AM   #46
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

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By Ogre "ramming" rules, you can have an INF unit of some size in the same hex as the Ogre at the end of the turn. The game on Steam regularly does this. By G.E.V. "overrun" rules, one or the other should be gone.
I forgot that Overrun was a rule keyword for the GEV close combat; very sloppy on my part. Please read that as ramming.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:34 AM   #47
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

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Originally Posted by ianargent View Post
I forget, is an infantry unit that is overrun by an Ogre under Ogre Ramming Rules forced to move out of the hex if it survives? If not, there's a rare but not theoretically impossible corner case where an Ogre uses its one and only movement point to reduce an Infantry unit, fails to kill it with guns, and loses the last movement point in the enemy fire phase. There's now an Ogre in the same hex as the infantry, without the capability to reduce it in the movement phase.

(This is practically impossible, since nobody shoots at AP guns, so the Infantry will get mowed if it doesn't move.)
No, INF doesn't have to move out. It's pretty common to have INF left over (and covered explicitly in the rules: 6.08). I don't really consider that a corner case; in your example, the Ogre doesn't have a movement phase, so it doesn't apply.

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By G.E.V. "overrun" rules, one or the other should be gone.
Not entirely true. When dealing with Ogres, it's possible to have opposing units left over. Look at 8.05.1 regarding disarmed Ogres; overruns can end early if the Ogre has no valid targets, resulting in both sides being in the same hex.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:39 AM   #48
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

Under the Ogre rules Infantry is not required to move out of the same hex as an Ogre during the Ogre Player's turn, so it is possible for an Ogre turn to end with Infantry in the same hex. It is extremely unlikely that the infantry will survive, but there are ways it could happen. An Ogre choosing to fire substantial numbers of AP at surrounding infantry, and then blowing the die roll to attack the infantry in its own hex is one.

Under GEV rules it will go into overrun combat which will continue until one is dead or the Ogre is disarmed.

(Horrible thought, A MK VI with full treads, one AP, no other weapons overruns a 1/1 which destroys the AP on the first round of overrun combat. Think how long it could take to peel all those treads at 1:1 attack odds doing 1 tread unit per successful attack... This insanity is why we have Rule 8.05.1 Disarmed Ogres)

Last edited by Dave Crowell; 12-03-2017 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:49 AM   #49
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

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(Horrible thought, A MK VI with full treads, one AP, no other weapons overruns a 1/1 which destroys the AP on the first round of overrun combat. Think how long it could take to peel all those treads at 1:1 attack odds doing 1 tread unit per successful attack... This insanity is why we have Rule 8.05.1 Disarmed Ogres)
If we didn't have 8.05.1, any sane player would simply say "the Ogre can't return fire, so just call it good" and fast-track to the Ogre being dead.

The real reason 8.05.1 exists is probably more along the line of the "4 minute turn" concept. It's unrealistic to think an Ogre that can't return fire is going to stick around and will disengage. The "2 more fire rounds" just represents the amount of time it takes for the Ogre to run away. It's also horribly un-fun for an Ogre auto-kill in that situation to exist; 8.05.1 gives an out so the game stays interesting.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:06 AM   #50
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Default Re: Question on 'Ramming'

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Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman View Post
Would the text suggestion in Bold be a good addition for clarity?

6.06 Reducing infantry. An Ogre does not literally “ram” infantry,
but any Ogre with AP weapons (or a Superheavy Tank) may move into an infantry hex as though the infantry were not there.
If the Ogre/SHVY has any antipersonnel weapons left, the infantry unit is automatically reduced by one squad.
This does not count as an “attack” for the AP weapons.
An Ogre/SHVY in a hex with infantry may expend a movement point, stay in the same hex, and reduce the infantry again.
When all its AP weapons are gone, or all it's movement has been used, an Ogre/SHVY can no longer reduce infantry in this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Crowell View Post
Yes, I think this is an improvement.
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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
I think that's redundant. If the Ogre can't move, of course it can't reduce INF by driving over it.
It's implying as long as the OGRE has movement it can reduce infantry, which then implies the number of times infantry can be reduced is dependent upon the OGREs movement it has left...up to the point where it cannot which is: "When all its AP weapons are gone, or all it's movement has been used, an Ogre/SHVY can no longer reduce infantry in this way."

I'm sure it can be worded more succinctly...or can it? I'd rather not have another few decades go by with out this being clarified. Any suggestions?
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