09-07-2014, 08:40 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
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[RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
Are the Visualization or Versatile advantages suitable for adding to Charm making rolls for RPMists?
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09-07-2014, 08:44 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
The first, I don't see why not but you only get a +1 per three points by which you succeed. The second is all about inventing and the new, I don't see how that would add unless its the first time you've ever tried a spell and the GM is limiting rituals in some way (e.g., "new" spells require Invention rolls).
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09-07-2014, 09:03 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
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Though I notice that this does need the clarification; this is for a PC who makes there static, established, done this multiple times before charms, in there known lab, in there off time, with no time constraints, between adventures, and with no interruptions rather then a more dynamic 'I need to make a new charm in the field' situation. This would further conflict with your own second statement that versatile does not apply to charm creation- if the creation of a charm requires no creativity, then clearly visualising the route process should be possible. |
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09-07-2014, 09:12 PM | #4 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
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The way I've always read Versatile is it gives you a bonus on inventing new things or coming up with new ways to do things...in most instances casting a spell is never going to get that bonus unless the GM is restricting spells somehow. Otherwise everyone would take Versatile and claim they're casting it a way each time and get a +1 bonus to all spells for a mere 5 points.
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09-07-2014, 09:22 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
Usually, Visualization doesn't help on invention-type rolls because you can't (by definition) visualize the desired end result and how to get there. If you could, it wouldn't be an invention, but an already known design. Similarly, you can't really Visualize the outcome of divinations or Intelligence Analysis sorts of rolls; you'd have to already know the answer before asking the question.
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09-08-2014, 02:11 AM | #6 | ||
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
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09-08-2014, 10:49 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
In my mind, those two or more or less synonymous - but you're right. The bonus depends on the variability and I should have said that. I still wouldn't let Visualization add more than a +1 per 3 points of margin, it's too cheap otherwise. And magic is inherently unpredictable, especially RPM where a single critical failure can not only kill the spell but turn it against you. If the GM rules otherwise for his campaign, fantastic, awesome - but buyer beware, he's allowing characters to purchase a trait that costs the same as one level of Magery, except he's giving a straight up bonus to Path rolls that's +1 or better with only a minute of concentration. The problem becomes even more pronounced when you add Reduced Time to require only a second or even as a free action which only adds a mere 14 points. As both a GM and a game designer I'm sticking to my guns here - +1 for every 3 points of margin is not only fair it's generous. If PK or Kromm would like to chime in saying otherwise, that's fine - but I don't think they will. Regardless, folks are still free to rule however for their games, but as I pointed out it's going to make Visualization THE trait to have if it's purchasable.
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09-08-2014, 09:35 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA, Arizona, Mesa
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
I see the +1/3 as being because the process is, in a sense, “incomplete” until the charm is used. You know how the prelude goes, but you don't know how the magic is ultimately going to turn out.
If I did allow the full +1/1 bonus, I would do it with the caveat from Telegraphic Attack that “this does not increase your skill for the purposes of critical success”, and further state that it doesn't decrease your chances of critical failure. Even if you get a +10, once you're gathering enough energy to bring your pre-bonus chances of critical failure up, it's just as dangerous. ETA: In fact, upon a bit of discussion with a fellow GM, I might add that caveat to the +1/3 bonus. Magic is unpredictable. Last edited by Celti; 09-08-2014 at 09:52 PM. |
09-08-2014, 10:12 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
Each roll is a random activity.
I would allow the +1/1 bonus though. You just have to accurately predict how many rolls i will take, how many botches you will have, and finally the effect of each botch. Do that and you IMHO predicted it well enough to get full Visualization bonus.
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09-08-2014, 10:23 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA, Arizona, Mesa
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Re: [RPM] Visualization and Versatile and Charms?
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