Real Magic! - Page 5

Kallatari · 12-06-2023, 02:07 PM

The really quick adaptation of Mage: The Ascension magic in GURPS would be:

- Use Syntatic Magic: Realms and Power (GURPS Thaumatology, p.188-191), where the Realms are the Spheres. If memory serves, there where 9 Spheres that had 5 levels each. If we adapt that as 9 Realms with 5 levels, then they would be worth (12 x level) points each. I'd personally just stick with the 6 levels per Realms as defined on p.189, in which case the Realms would be worth (10 x level) points each.
- Use Reactive Reality (GURPS Thaumatology, p.193-194) to account for "vulgar" vs "coincidental" magic to receive Distortion points.
- Apply the generic Syntatic modifiers (GURPS Thaumatology, p.180-183, or tables p.242-243) as skills penalties (rather than energy cost modifiers or required margin of success), and you can then buy off those penalties for a pre-determined effect as a Technique which represents a "rote."

From there, you can customize your own variant system by customizing the Realms and the number of levels they have. You could also customize the effects of Distortion Points, and how to get rid of them.

dataweaver · 12-06-2023, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kallatari

The really quick adaptation of Mage: The Ascension magic in GURPS would be:

- Use Syntatic Magic: Realms and Power (GURPS Thaumatology, p.188-191), where the Realms are the Spheres. If memory serves, there where 9 Spheres that had 5 levels each. If we adapt that as 9 Realms with 5 levels, then they would be worth (12 x level) points each. I'd personally just stick with the 6 levels per Realms as defined on p.189, in which case the Realms would be worth (10 x level) points each.
- Use Reactive Reality (GURPS Thaumatology, p.193-194) to account for "vulgar" vs "coincidental" magic to receive Distortion points.
- Apply the generic Syntatic modifiers (GURPS Thaumatology, p.180-183, or tables p.242-243) as skills penalties (rather than energy cost modifiers or required margin of success), and you can then buy off those penalties for a pre-determined effect as a Technique which represents a "rote."

From there, you can customize your own variant system by customizing the Realms and the number of levels they have. You could also customize the effects of Distortion Points, and how to get rid of them.

Most (all?) of the optional rules for Realm Magic that are found in Thaumatology exist to make it more like the system found in GURPS Mage: the Ascension. For instance, there's an option concerning the use of tools when using a Realm, which is basically Mage's (extremely loose) foci system.

Pursuivant · 12-07-2023, 05:51 PM

As constructive criticism, there isn't enough information on your web site for playtesters or commenters to work with.

The spell ideas seem reasonable, but they're just ideas for standard GURPS Magic, Ritual/Path magic spells, or Powers/Sorcery. Flesh them out with game statistics and you'll get more more positive response to requests for feedback.

If you're not familiar with designing spells, ask for help with a particular spell and the folks on this forum will be glad to walk you through the process.

If you're using the standard GURPS Magic format as a base, many of your ideas are just variations on existing spells or new spells that would temporarily grant certain advantages.

My rule of thumb for "Bestow Advantage" type spells is 3-5 second casting time for traits with combat utility, 5-10 seconds for non-combat traits. Duration is 10 second or 1 minute duration for traits useful in combat or 10 minutes or 1 hour for traits useful in a non-combat context. Casting cost is 1 FP per 5 character points of traits bestowed, with half cost to maintain in most cases.

As an example:

Insight Regular
Knowledge College
Gives the subject the effects of a successful use of the Intuition advantage (p. B61) to identify a likely path to success prior to performing a specific task. For the spell to work, the subject must have a decent grasp of the problem they're trying to solve and possible approaches to solving it. They must also meditate on the problem for at least 1 minute before the spell is cast. Failure to do so means the spell fails.

In game terms, the subject's player must lay out potential actions their character can take to solve a particular immediate problem or the choices must be obvious (e.g., Which door do I choose? Which suspect should I interview first?). On a successful casting, the GM must choose the solution which best helps the player (or character) solve their immediate problem. If multiple options are equally good, the GM can choose among them. If none of the stated options are good the spell fails but the caster will know why.

Duration: Instantaneous. The subject must meditate on a particular problem for 1 minute before the spell can be cast.
Cost: 3. Can't be maintained.
Time to Cast: 10 seconds.
Prerequisite: Divination.

~~namada~~ · 12-08-2023, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

"Coincidental" magic is not obviously a violation of the laws of physics or at least is not cast in front of non-magical witnesses. "Vulgar" magic is probably both and Reality doesn't like that sort of thing and may inflict backlash on the user.

This is a big deal in original M:tA (i.e. 30 years ago for the Gurps version).

Also, while the game system could be fully flexible and improvisational some casters and some traditions depended on "rotes" which are pre-set magic "spells" with the actual mechanics embedded in the Sphere system..

It just came to me as I started to write this that the OP was producing a list of "rotes" (though he never used that word). He was trying to use some old G:WoD books he'd found but apparently no one here was sufficiently immersed in these 30 year old game mechanics to grasp what he was doing. I think "rotes" were virtually ignored in the M:tA port in Thaumatology.

My personal reasons for not recognizing this sooner were not only that it was half a lifetime ago (more for most of you whipper-snappers) but I hated subjective reality and Mage manipulation of it when i stumbled across it back in the 90s.

Honestly, that seems to fit exactly what I was remembering, I just didn't have the words to express that atm, because I wasn't certain about it...
So, I guess, thanks for saying what I needed to say...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kallatari

The really quick adaptation of Mage: The Ascension magic in GURPS would be:

- Use Syntatic Magic: Realms and Power (GURPS Thaumatology, p.188-191), where the Realms are the Spheres. If memory serves, there where 9 Spheres that had 5 levels each. If we adapt that as 9 Realms with 5 levels, then they would be worth (12 x level) points each. I'd personally just stick with the 6 levels per Realms as defined on p.189, in which case the Realms would be worth (10 x level) points each.
- Use Reactive Reality (GURPS Thaumatology, p.193-194) to account for "vulgar" vs "coincidental" magic to receive Distortion points.
- Apply the generic Syntatic modifiers (GURPS Thaumatology, p.180-183, or tables p.242-243) as skills penalties (rather than energy cost modifiers or required margin of success), and you can then buy off those penalties for a pre-determined effect as a Technique which represents a "rote."

From there, you can customize your own variant system by customizing the Realms and the number of levels they have. You could also customize the effects of Distortion Points, and how to get rid of them.

Yes, however, Street also did say that he/she/it was trying to adapt the book "Authentic Thaumaturgy" not WoD magic in any form, so this is only kinda helpful. I did own that particular book at one time, no longer, and as others have said, I found it to be too focused on 1960s+ spiritual/mystic magic ideas & didn't enjoy the thing overall. With that said, if Street likes it and wants to use it with GURPS, that is perfectly possible, so let's help Street with that.

12-06-2023, 02:07 PM	#41
Kallatari Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada	Re: Real Magic! The really quick adaptation of Mage: The Ascension magic in GURPS would be: - Use Syntatic Magic: Realms and Power (*GURPS Thaumatology,* p.188-191), where the Realms are the Spheres. If memory serves, there where 9 Spheres that had 5 levels each. If we adapt that as 9 Realms with 5 levels, then they would be worth (12 x level) points each. I'd personally just stick with the 6 levels per Realms as defined on p.189, in which case the Realms would be worth (10 x level) points each. - Use Reactive Reality (*GURPS Thaumatology, p.193-194) to account for "vulgar" vs "coincidental" magic to receive Distortion points. - Apply the generic Syntatic modifiers (GURPS Thaumatology*, p.180-183, or tables p.242-243) as skills penalties (rather than energy cost modifiers or required margin of success), and you can then buy off those penalties for a pre-determined effect as a Technique which represents a "rote." From there, you can customize your own variant system by customizing the Realms and the number of levels they have. You could also customize the effects of Distortion Points, and how to get rid of them.

12-07-2023, 05:51 PM	#43
Pursuivant Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: Real Magic! As constructive criticism, there isn't enough information on your web site for playtesters or commenters to work with. The spell ideas seem reasonable, but they're just ideas for standard GURPS Magic, Ritual/Path magic spells, or Powers/Sorcery. Flesh them out with game statistics and you'll get more more positive response to requests for feedback. If you're not familiar with designing spells, ask for help with a particular spell and the folks on this forum will be glad to walk you through the process. If you're using the standard GURPS Magic format as a base, many of your ideas are just variations on existing spells or new spells that would temporarily grant certain advantages. My rule of thumb for "Bestow Advantage" type spells is 3-5 second casting time for traits with combat utility, 5-10 seconds for non-combat traits. Duration is 10 second or 1 minute duration for traits useful in combat or 10 minutes or 1 hour for traits useful in a non-combat context. Casting cost is 1 FP per 5 character points of traits bestowed, with half cost to maintain in most cases. As an example: Insight Regular Knowledge College Gives the subject the effects of a successful use of the Intuition advantage (p. B61) to identify a likely path to success prior to performing a specific task. For the spell to work, the subject must have a decent grasp of the problem they're trying to solve and possible approaches to solving it. They must also meditate on the problem for at least 1 minute before the spell is cast. Failure to do so means the spell fails. In game terms, the subject's player must lay out potential actions their character can take to solve a particular immediate problem or the choices must be obvious (e.g., Which door do I choose? Which suspect should I interview first?). On a successful casting, the GM must choose the solution which best helps the player (or character) solve their immediate problem. If multiple options are equally good, the GM can choose among them. If none of the stated options are good the spell fails but the caster will know why. Duration: Instantaneous. The subject must meditate on a particular problem for 1 minute before the spell can be cast. Cost: 3. Can't be maintained. Time to Cast: 10 seconds. Prerequisite: Divination. Last edited by Pursuivant; 12-07-2023 at 05:56 PM.