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Old 03-27-2020, 02:33 AM   #1
Mirtai
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Default Uncontrollable Shapeshifting question

OK, so to create a "were-creature" the basic book says you should add the "Uncontrollable" limitation to the Shapeshifting.

That makes sense, but I have come up with a conundrum.

Shapeshifting takes 10 seconds of concentration to do.

So let's say your werewolf is confronted by an angry werewolf hunter, and he panics, failing his will save and starts to transform.

What's stopping him from just not concentrating and stopping the transformation?

Or, say the hunter starts attacking him mid transformation, and the poor werewolf dodges... which forces a Will-3 check to keep concentrating... which the werewolf fails.

So he stops transforming?

So if he has a friend around, and they want to conceal the fact that he turns into a werewolf from the world, whenever he starts to transform they just try and step on his foot, forcing a concentration check as he tries to avoid getting his foot stepped on?

How does having to concentrate to transform mix with having your transformations be Uncontrollable?
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Old 03-27-2020, 03:47 AM   #2
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: Uncontrollable Shapeshifting question

If I were GMing, I would say that the concentration requirement does not apply to accidental activation, only intentional (thought it would still take ten seconds). That seems to be the intention of the writers for the Uncontrollable limitation in general, though I suppose I could be wrong about that.
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Old 03-27-2020, 07:53 AM   #3
malloyd
 
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Default Re: Uncontrollable Shapeshifting question

Alternately being uncontrollable may mean you don't have a *choice*. Once it triggers the player is no longer in control of the character, he's effectively paralyzed during the transformation and "concentrates" for the required 10 seconds regardless of what the player wants him to do.

That certainly seems in keeping with how this scene plays out in many films - the transforming were stops whatever they are doing and makes dramatic suffering poses for the transformation period.
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Old 03-27-2020, 08:12 AM   #4
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: Uncontrollable Shapeshifting question

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Alternately being uncontrollable may mean you don't have a *choice*. Once it triggers the player is no longer in control of the character, he's effectively paralyzed during the transformation and "concentrates" for the required 10 seconds regardless of what the player wants him to do.

That certainly seems in keeping with how this scene plays out in many films - the transforming were stops whatever they are doing and makes dramatic suffering poses for the transformation period.
Either way, though, interrupting the transformation shouldn't work, unless it's that sort of game. Outside of Silly games, I wouldn't allow it.
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:16 PM   #5
Plane
 
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Default Re: Uncontrollable Shapeshifting question

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Originally Posted by Mirtai View Post
What's stopping him from just not concentrating and stopping the transformation?
When an Uncontrollable advantage is triggered, I think it activates on its own, you don't need to go through the usual steps of activating it AFAIK.

"The GM takes over your ability" sounds like it would work similar to a compartmentalized mind, and have an entirely different "concentration" than your own.

In fact, it might even be reasonable, for the purpose of making the will rolls to PREVENT the power from activating, to require the use of concentrate maneuvers?

P106 elaborates more on this:

Anyone who takes Uncontrollable must specify the “intelligence” that
commandeers his ability:
his subconscious or something else.
His subconscious uses his scores for all rolls
B115 "Unconscious Only" limitation helps to understand this: you definitely don't require Concentrate maneuvers there. Though perhaps an interesting house rule might be to require a character to take "Do Nothing" any time the ABILITY would need to use a Concentrate? *shrug*

So if you were IQ 9 and your ability had "requires IQ roll", your subconscious would also need to roll 9 or less to activate it, but if the GM let you specify "something else" as some demon with IQ 16, it might be able to activate your ability more reliable than you're able to.

Part of the weirdness of this is of course that there's some potential benefit (extra attacks per second) where Uncontrollable abilities operate independently of whatever you're choosing to do and might be harder to interrupt than normal abilities.

Having benefits built into disadvantages (see: berserk) or limitations (see: insubstantial only) isn't unique though.

I don't think Uncontrollable abilities should necessarily be 100% uninterruptible, but interrupting a compartmentalized mind should probably be trickier and maybe require some supernatural abilities, since it might not be linked to your body at all and might need to be specially targeted.

Think in the sense if you were hit with Affliction: Shapeshifting. You wouldn't need to take Concentrates, it's the Afflictor who would need to take them since he's operating the ability.

So much as you'd need to disrupt the Afflictor's concentrate, you need to disrupt the subconscious's (or other INTELLIGENCE'S) concentration?

I'd like to find some examples of Uncontrollable powers, maybe we can find some examples of one in use?
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:26 PM   #6
kirbwarrior
 
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Default Re: Uncontrollable Shapeshifting question

As cool as many of these ideas are, I'd just slap on Active Change +20% (from Powers) and call it good.
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