New name for the "Djinn" band.

[chaotic-nipple]

The Djinn of Islamic mythology are more similar to Ethereals than demons. But what would be a better name for the band? Any suggestions?

[ISNorden]

Originally Posted by chaotic-nipple

The Djinn of Islamic mythology are more similar to Ethereals than demons. But what would be a better name for the band? Any suggestions?

Hmmm--anyone out there with a dictionary of Biblical Greek and/or Hebrew? A name that meant "lurker", "predator", or "stalker" would describe a fallen Cherub's role better than "Djinn" does. (And yes, I agree that the legendary djinn described in Arab folktales are not demons; in In Nomine terms, I'd call them Ethereals with a twisted sense of humor.)

Edited to add: In the canonical game world, I'd guess that the fallen Cherubim got misnamed by some ignorant Arab who couldn't tell the difference between one spirit and the next--and that the name stuck because that particular person gained respect as an occult writer. Considering the Band's cynical attitude, it's no wonder the mistake hasn't been corrected after all these centuries!

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by ISNorden

Hmmm--anyone out there with a dictionary of Biblical Greek and/or Hebrew? A name that meant "lurker", "predator", or "stalker" would describe a fallen Cherub's role better than "Djinn" does. (And yes, I agree that the legendary djinn described in Arab folktales are not demons; in In Nomine terms, I'd call them Ethereals with a twisted sense of humor.)

The source I have isn't 100 percent reliable, but it looks like tzahyad is the Hebrew word for "predator" or "hunter." So maybe the Tzahyadim? EDIT: Or maybe not -- I just realized that's a respelling of the word for the angels of Purity who never left Uriel's service, but continued stalking the Marches. Oh, well. Other thoughts?

That said, I do like the Djinn as a name for one curious reason. Their Band specifically cannot harm someone they're attuned to, unless that person in some way asks for it or leaves a loophole in a request that allows it. ("Look, I was told to kill Jeanne Mason by any means possible ... it's not my fault you were on the same bus I planted the bomb on.") I can all too easily see how that could grow into legends of a spirit that might answer your wishes, but only if you phrased the request carefully.

[Jason]

This name has long bothered me too (and not just because some players seem to get confused trying to pronounce it). Traditionally, Jinn are supposed to have free will, and not necessarily be evil, like humans. (Then again, angels are not supposed to have free will according to Islam, so I guess there is some wiggle room here.)

One possibility might be to make a distinction between Djinn/Jinn and Ifrit, which seem to be traditionally classified specifically as infernal/rebellion Jinn; maybe use one term for the ethereal version and the other for the demonic version?

... Oh man, a minute of searching on Google Scholar for "demonology typology" yielded a great article by Ruslan Severbekov titled "On the Demonology of the Tabasaranians." You'll need a university library subscription to view the whole article, but check out this stuff on the "Rux," a type of "boggard":

Rux has a vague, amorphous, occasionally zoomorphic (bear, wolf, cat) or slightly anthro- pomorphic image with certain physical abnormalities ("no left nostril", "one eye in the fore-head, one nostril lacking, no mouth"), pointing out to the super-mundane nature of this character. (Sounds like about the right celestial form to me...)

In most cases the informants were not at ease to point out the boggard's permanent location. In some villages they thought that Rux does not live in the house, that he is not domestic, his habitation is in the structures breeding all kind of dirty things. As to the house, it is where he contacts with man. Rux commonly visits people in the night (usually at midnight). (So rather than picking a place of his own, he hangs around filthy places and stalks you to your own house ... sounds about right again.)

Rux is silent ("in folklore, dumbness is an attribute of belonging to the world of the dead")… The ambivalence of this character is seen in the
symbiosis of the two opposing predications: malicious will - guardianship. (So he isn't chatty, and he is divided between the desire to guard and the desire to harm those he guards? There's even some indication that a Rux can give you magical items or riches if he visits you to lean on you painfully... Sounds good to me.)

Also, "Rux" sounds like the kind of single-syllable nonsense word that Djinn would take on as a name anyway, being uninterested in showing interest in anything more elaborate or traditional-sounding.

Be sure to check out the full article if you want to read more about this, and/or about demons that harass women during labor.

[ISNorden]

"Ifrit" seems like the best choice I've seen so far, since Muslim folklore does class those spirits as oppressive demons--and makes it clear that Djinn are another kind of being altogether. (Even the Koran mentions Djinn converting to Islam without becoming angels; this suggests that this kind of spirit can't Fall or Redeem. Sound like an IN Ethereal yet? ;-) )

That said, I still think the "scholarly confusion" story is a decent cover-up for the canonical name. Some devout Muslim writer may well have lumped Djinn together with the Ethereal "false gods" and implied that both were servants of the Devil. A few Stalkers may have even deceived the early Arabs by impersonating the Ethereal Djinn, making the distinction even fuzzier...

[LoneWolf23k]

I always figured "Hellhound" was actually a better description of what the Djinn actually seem to be, as both hunters (Hunting Hounds) and guardians (Guard Dogs).

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by chaotic-nipple

The Djinn of Islamic mythology are more similar to Ethereals than demons. But what would be a better name for the band? Any suggestions?

Jeanie and the Rumbling Tumbling Carpets quintet (Minus two). ;D

[Acolyte]

Given Heaven's relationship to books and scholarship through Yves (and I suppose Dominic and Litheroy), I wouldn't put it past putting the blame for that kind of scholarly mishap on some snickering angels. Alternatively, the name confusion could come from a serious effort mounted by Uriel in the centuries leading up to the Purity Crusades to convince both angels and humans that Ethereals should be treated as another form of demon to be put down. Even now, most old times Ethereals are pretty badly tainted in human perception as being dangerous or evil, and it's possible that not all of that reputation came from the aftermath of the Crusade and the allegiance of the dreamthings to Beleth.

It's also likely that the Djinn--generally unmotivated, and certainly unwilling to overturn the confusion, which suits them as fine as any other anonymity--managed to unite well enough in revenge to recast Cherubim as fat babies. Asmodeus might have been involved, disliking the confusion caused by the misnomer (was the huge disturbance caused by a Renegade or an Ethereal? The only human witnesses said the man called himself a "Djinn") and smarting from the assault on his Band.

[Jason]

Apologies for reanimating a dead thread if nobody else is interested in this, but now that I'm running a demons/ethereals/humans only campaign, I've found myself even more annoyed by "Djinn" as a Band name. This thread has some good alternatives, but I have some concerns about the ones here (including the one I offered).

Tzyahadim - Hebrew for "hunters," but as noted here, the term is in use by the Orphan angels of Purity.
Rux - An animal-form boggard that stalks people, either stifling them or helping them depending on the myth.
Ifrit - A malevolent jinn. (Still seems too specific to ethereals rather than demons for my tastes.)
Hellhounds - Self-explanatory and sensible, but potential for confusion with Soldiers of Hell with the same title.
Tanneanim - Found "]off this site in my searchings. Not sure where the suggestion originates from, but looks more like a Hebrew word referring to sea monsters.

Anyway, I started digging around a bit more, and found another term I figured I might as well add to the list.

Se'irim - Hebrew for "hairy beings," this is a term used in the Talmud for goat-like or satyr-like demons distinct from shedim that were considered an inappropriate object of worship.

This one has some nice history and trivia to recommend it:

1) A demon with an animalistic appearance is a good match for a Band whose celestial form is generally of an animal.

2) Azazel (Djinn secretary to Lucifer, in In Nomine) is noted as their chief in some sources.

3) And finally ... they've been described in a couple places I've read as "identical to jinn," for those who would like an in-game explanation for where the canon "misidentification" came from.

Now if only I could start using it suddenly without confusing the heck out of my players...

[Rocket Man]

Not bad at all! I might also add "Radaph" to the list, Hebrew for "pursuer." (Presumably, Radaphim would be the plural.)

I looked up "dogs" but the result -- "kelevim" -- was dangerously close to the proper name of the Freaks, and may have even been the source.