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01-14-2011, 09:13 AM | #41 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: .
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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I believe that if one of my players reads GURPS Lite Fourth Edition and decides that they want their character to be a surgeon, they should have the right to make their character a surgeon so long as they pick appropriate advantages, disadvantages, skills, et cetera and provide a decent backstory. Their character shouldn't be made useless because I don't know how to apply their skills in a situation because the manual doesn't specify, because the skills aren't even meant to be in the manual in the first place. Dig? Quote:
However, that's not your problem and I'm not making it yours. Quote:
I feel that the familiarity of a world grounded in reality as we know it now is the best way to ease them in, rather than shoving them straight into the deep-end, cold turkey. Quote:
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But I'm not playing. I'm a GM and I'm trying to create a fun, playable adventure. Quote:
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I'm not trying to run a "Uber-Psionic-Gun-Bunnies-with-Magic-and-Kung Fu" adventure, I'm trying to run a fun, playable adventure. Quote:
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It also applies to everything else mentioned by Mailanka. More replies coming. |
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01-14-2011, 09:26 AM | #42 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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GURPS Lite is similar to read only Acrobat Reader, you can't modify a PDF or make a new one with it, you're only supposed to use Lite to get a rough idea of what the system is like. Or in a more book-like reference, GURPS Lite is the equivalent of the blurb on the back of a paperback book, someone trying to run a game using just GURPS Lite is like someone writing a review of a book based on its back cover. |
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01-14-2011, 09:30 AM | #43 | |
Stick in the Mud
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rural Utah
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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All of this reads to me as if you are under some sort of misapprehension. You seem to believe that A) GURPS Lite is supposed to be a simplified version of the rules. B) That GURPS Lite is made up of a mix of simplified and normal rules. C) I forgot what I was going to put here... In the case of A) this is wrong. It is not a simplified version of the rules. It is a condensed version of the rules. Everything that appears in Lite is also in the full version. Most of the optional rules have been removed for Lite. In the case of B) this is also wrong. All of the rules are the same between the two versions. The only difference is, as above, the vast majority of the optional rules were not included. Personally I would put the ratio of required to optional content in the two volumes of the Basic Set as somewhere around 98% of it is optional with only 2% required. You have everything required to play. You only have a small amount of the optional rules included to showcase. That said, the inclusion of some items that are based on one of the optional rules seems like a mistake. However, that does not mean you cannot use them. Just pretend that the optional portion doesn't exist and use them like you would any other item for which you have the rules. So it seems you are saying that it is unusable because it is comprised of two different, incompatible, sets of rules. What you actually have is the most basic rules with all of the optional rules removed.
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01-14-2011, 09:42 AM | #44 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
Then you should probably guy Basic Set rather than try to use a distillation of the game's rules, by definition that means stuff is left out. You can't seriously be surprised that a lot of details are left out when the rules go from 600 pages long to 30 pages long.
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01-14-2011, 09:47 AM | #45 | |
Stick in the Mud
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rural Utah
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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You may need to explain this one more. If you are looking for something that says something like: For a surgeon to repair the damage to an artery caused by a bullet, while taking cover in a straw hut that is being attacked, have the player roll against their surgery skill at a -15 difficulty. You won't find it even in the complete Basic Set. This is a GM call, and you won't find instructions like that in the book.
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01-14-2011, 10:00 AM | #46 | |||||||||||
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: .
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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Also, the quote somewhat works against your argument. GURPS Lite Fourth Edition dictates, "Once you're comfortable with these rules, you can pick up the GURPS: Basic Set and jump right into the action." Which suggests, to me, that it is a learning tool for newbies and not for veterans. This is backed up with the following, "Experienced Game Masters will, we hope, find this a valuable tool for introducing new players to the game." This further supports my opinion, because it directly confirms it. GURPS Lite Fourth Edition can be used by an experienced GM as a learning tool for newbs, like you said, but that is not its only purpose. There's no reason why a newbie can't cut out the middle man and begin learning GURPS right away. Quote:
I was under the impression that GURPS Ultra-Lite would be nothing more than a Post-it note with the words, "SEE GURPS: SOMETHING ELSE" scribbled on it. Quote:
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Forget it. Quote:
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Yes. Yes. No. I do not have "quite high" expectations, I have basic expectations. Quote:
You are a convenient example. Quote:
Yes, I do. What a coincidence! I was having the same thoughts about you. I don't think that standards are weird and I doubt that anyone else does, either. |
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01-14-2011, 10:01 AM | #47 | ||||
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
It's a demo. You seem to expect the complete treatment of GURPS to be found in those 30 pages. To state this as simply as I can: It doesn't, because you can't fit 600 pages of material into 30, and it's not really the practice of SJGames to give away their complete product in their demo.
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Replace X with any number of things that people might want. How is your demand any greater, any more important, than theirs? If you want a complete product, buy the book. Quote:
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You sound like the guy shouting "Why can't there be 20 levels! It says there are 20 levels." There are, in the full game. You don't have that. You have the demo. You want submachine guns? Buy the bit that has submachine guns. Quote:
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My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars. |
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01-14-2011, 10:03 AM | #48 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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ALL the RPGs of that kind that I've ever read, assumed that the GM "would be pulling numbers out of his ass". It's just how these games works; rules-lightness require fudging by the GM. Detailed, complete games require lots of pages. If you know any game which is really simple (e.g., 32 pages) yet complete and detailed, please tell me which game it is! I will happily stop playing GURPS and use this "magical" game instead. Quote:
Frosty, I apologize if I was somewhat adversarial and I couldn't help you. Best wishes for your campaign.]
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Last edited by Lupo; 01-14-2011 at 10:10 AM. |
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01-14-2011, 10:10 AM | #49 |
Munchkin Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
This thread is getting heated and the people who would usually be able to explain this more clearly are all in a conference room about 30 feet from me, not paying attention to the forums. So I'm closing the thread until they have a chance to get back and take a look.
I would remind ALL posters that we require civility in discussions here; if you find yourself getting agitated because of something someone said, it's time to close the window and do something else for a while.
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01-14-2011, 12:39 PM | #50 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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Lupo and Frosty, you're both past the line with the arguments. There's no reason to get this cranky over a game, guys. And to answer the OP, there are close to a hundred tables that you can find in the Basic Set that you won't find in Lite. That's because Lite is essentially a demo for real GURPS, so you can get a taste of what the game is like. It doesn't include everything you need to run any kind of game, and doesn't pretend to. On its own, you can't really run games focusing on magic, heavy guns, psi, space survival, etc. And that's why Lite is free. It includes as much GURPS as we could fit into 32 pages, with a focus on portability across multiple campaigns when possible. (Please do not start a new thread on this subject or one transparently similar. Everyone needs to cool down on this topic. Thank you.)
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edition, fourth, gurps, lite, table |
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