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Old 08-28-2015, 06:35 AM   #1
Erling
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Default [TG] Preventing someone from shooting

In my last gaming session Joe McWeakling (ST 10, DX 11) saved his stunned buddy from being shot by an enemy grunt. Joe did it by grappling grunt's arm in which he held his pistol: AoA (Determined) grappling attack with both hands targeted at arm. As per B371, grunt couldn't use his pistol as his arm was grappled. More than that, Joe McWeakling had +5 bonus to his ST when resisted grunt's attempts to break free. That gave Joe's buddy enough time to succeed in his HT roll, get up, grab his weapon and finish the grunt.

How would that work if I was using TG rules? Regular applying of CP isn't enough, because with ST 10 and thr 1d-2 Joe won't be able to cause serious penalty for a grunt - most possibly grunt will just use Close-Contact Shot on his next turn for +8 (which will be enough to compensate for Bulk and CP-based penalty) and finish Joe.
As far as I understand, the closest option for Joe would be AoA (Double) with first attack being a usual grappling attack which provides CP (possibly with Telegraphic option since Joe isn't a skilled grappler) and second attack being Joint Lock. It'll be easier for grunt to break free, because all he will have to do is to commit a successful attack, but it's better than regular applying of CP-based penalty anyway.

And by the way, am I correct assuming that resisting Joint Lock (to be more exact, avoiding it; ST and HT do matter when attacker tried to inflict injury via Joint Lock) has nothing to do with target's ST and depends only on his Parry score?
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Last edited by Erling; 08-28-2015 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:57 AM   #2
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [TG]Preventing someone from shooting

Check out p. 23 - Disallowed Maneuvers, under the lead-in title "Aim, Concentrate, and Ranged Attacks."

(In fairness, this is not easy to find)

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Originally Posted by TG
Aim, Concentrate, and Ranged Attacks: Aim or Concentrate
requires a Will roll at a penalty equal to your foe’s Trained ST,
modified for CP, maximum 0 – your CP may eliminate the
penalty but will never provide a bonus. If your ST is 20+, divide
this penalty by (your ST)/10; drop fractions. Failure means a Do
Nothing maneuver this turn; on a critical failure, roll on the
Unarmed Critical Miss Table (p. B557)! Ranged attacks do not
require a Will roll, but suffer the same penalty to skill.
This means by grabbing his foe's weapon arm, Joe inflicts a -10 penalty to hit. The foe can shoot, but he's not likely going to hit much without an All-Out Telegraphic Attack (possible because melee distance).

This is a heck of a penalty, maybe too much - but the RAW are "if you're grappled you cannot use that body part," so I went with (and the playtesters didn't freak out) a very large penalty instead. Functionally "you can't do that," but with the right maneuver selection, but sometimes possible in the correct circumstances.
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Old 08-28-2015, 07:06 AM   #3
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [TG] Preventing someone from shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erling View Post
And by the way, am I correct assuming that resisting Joint Lock (to be more exact, avoiding it; ST and HT do matter when attacker tried to inflict injury via Joint Lock) has nothing to do with target's ST and depends only on his Parry score?
Not quite.

You can parry an attempt to apply an arm lock; an Arm Lock is a flavor of grapple that requires a grapple as a prerequisite, but is simply an attack. So that's a parry.

You can also attack to break free of an arm lock. That's less likely due to applied CP, but possible. You may need to AoA and/or Telegraphic to overcome any penalties for CP, but that seems right to me. Then your STR will reduce the CP on the hold and break the lock.

Also, if you want to force your way out, you can use a Brute Parry (see Muscling It, p. 26), which bases your parry on ST. That's a very iffy rule, but I've had personal experience on this one on the receiving end.
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Old 08-28-2015, 07:31 AM   #4
Erling
 
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Default Re: [TG] Preventing someone from shooting

Quote:
Check out p. 23 - Disallowed Maneuvers, under the lead-in title "Aim, Concentrate, and Ranged Attacks."

(In fairness, this is not easy to find)
Thanks, it's really helpful for Joe. Although Close-Contact Shots from TS still provide +8 (+4 for AoA in close range and +4 for lining up the weapon against the enemy), so with -10 penalty grunt will have only -2 to skill. Thus Joint Lock is still a good idea for Joe.

Quote:
Then your STR will reduce the CP on the hold and break the lock.
But in case of successful attack joint is unlocked regardless of whether any CP left, so ST is not that important. Brute Parry helps, though (not dramatically, but helps) - I haven't studied TG properly yet.
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Last edited by Erling; 08-28-2015 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 08-28-2015, 08:02 AM   #5
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: [TG] Preventing someone from shooting

Can Joe use a hands free parry to avoid being shot in that case? And with +2 if his for went telegraphic

Wait, except Joe did an All Out Attack to start the mess
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Old 08-28-2015, 08:08 AM   #6
Enoch
 
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Default Re: [TG] Preventing someone from shooting

Not that it helps much, but don't forget the bulk penalty of a pistol which I assume is probably -2.
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Old 08-28-2015, 08:16 AM   #7
Erling
 
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Default Re: [TG] Preventing someone from shooting

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Not that it helps much, but don't forget the bulk penalty of a pistol which I assume is probably -2.
Good catch, I considered it first, but then forgot to mention it. So with Bulk penalty grunt will be at -4 to hit.
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:49 PM   #8
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [TG] Preventing someone from shooting

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Can Joe use a hands free parry to avoid being shot in that case? And with +2 if his for went telegraphic

Wait, except Joe did an All Out Attack to start the mess
I would give a cautious yes to hands-free in my own game, because the counterargument is "you got shot," but the rules say that you can only use hands-free parries against a grappling attack.
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