10-11-2010, 07:48 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands, Eindhoven
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Wolves and wrestling
As desrcibed in my previous topic Need help in preparing campaign I was preparing a game where the players are playing wolves. I am currently playing that game and in a recent session a player wanted to grapple, and the question came up why the skill list I use doens't include wrestling.
Doing some research I find in the basic set (p.B370) that grappling can be done with just a roll against DX, and according to martial arts (p.MA115 under the box teeth) grappling with teeth can be done with brawling (also it includes the feature 'Born biter' and I am not sure if wolves should have the +1 or +2 version). Some further research (looking at youtube videos and reading wikipedia mostly) I can see some moves (especially in shows of dominance and 'play' fights) that can be considered more wrestling like then brawling like. Examples include: 'pinning' another wolf, hanging onto the neck of a prey (trying to use weight to destabilize (can be interpreted as an attempt to throw)), trying to push another wolf of when lying on back (with front legs), etc. (Some what I mean can be seen here) My question know is should wolves (if they are player characters) have access to wrestling or not? (and should I use born biter +1 or +2)
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10-11-2010, 07:56 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
If you look at the inventory of moves under Sumo Wrestling, it's actually a fairly close match to some aspects of canine combat. It may be a better fit than standard Wrestling.
I'd say it's really more sensible, though, to say that a wild animal has straight DX, or at most Brawling. It isn't as if they would make a systematic study of the effectiveness of different moves. Bill Stoddard |
10-11-2010, 08:04 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
Wolves that are player characters probably should have access to Wrestling, Sumo Wrestling, Karate, etc. Maybe not if you're attempting something with a Watership Down-like effort to match your PC wolves to real wolves, and real wolves have no concept of Judo (hypothetically). But a sapient wolf can make use of any unarmed skill, to some degree.
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10-11-2010, 08:33 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
I'd allow Wrestling, even for non-sapient animals - after all, they are likely learning something from all that play-fighting. I think a good deal of the combat from things like challenges is grappling, and if wolves couldn't learn Wrestling the older wolf would almost invariably lose to an inexperienced younger wolf (as the younger wolf would have higher DX and thus higher effective skill if it can't be learned).
As for Born Biter, DF lizardmen have Born Biter 3, so I'd expect wolves to have similar.
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10-11-2010, 09:49 AM | #5 | |||||
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands, Eindhoven
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
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Anyway thanks for the replies.
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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Evelyn Beatrice Hall My site |
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10-11-2010, 09:52 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
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As for learning wrestling, I could see a wolf learning it, but don't consider it necessary for the way they operate. They tend to use straight DX or possibly get a perk or two to default a few wrestling techniques off brawling instead (although this is unnecessary for a grappling bite as it would use Brawling since that includes most uses of natural attacks). I did do a minor tweak to the Teeth rules - in the section for exceeding SM by 1-2, it only considered biting grapples to be two-handed for a limited selection of maneuvers... I added Takedown to that list, since that's a common technique for canines - wolves latch onto to the throat of their prey and drag them down while dogs tend to bite a person's arm and try to pull them off balance - and I don't see them having half effective ST for that purpose. |
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10-11-2010, 09:58 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: One Mile Up
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
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I personally give them Born Biter x1, but I could see arguments for x2. x3 would allow an SM 0 wolf to engulf a human's entire head or torso according to MA p115, which seems a little out of line with real wolf mouths to me. |
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10-11-2010, 09:58 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vermont
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
I would suggest allowing Sumo Wrestling or Wrestling and the Perk: Skill Adaptation (Bite with Wrestling) instead of Brawling. Wolves don't really "strike", almost all of their fighting and hunting involves grappling with their teeth.
Big cats and Bears would, of course have Brawling or Karate as well as Wrestling.
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10-11-2010, 10:11 AM | #9 | |||||
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands, Eindhoven
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Re: Wolves and wrestling
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Thanks again.
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martial arts, teeth, wrestling |
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