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Old 12-30-2006, 12:51 PM   #11
Kelly Pedersen
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: Lord of the Rings Elven Racial Template

Originally Posted by Celjabba
yes , it is silly. And i did say that i believe it should be written as a special effect -Upon physical death, go to the hall of mandos - o pts.
I agree it's a zero point effect. It's the same 0 point effect that practically any character in a fantasy world where "souls" are real has: "when you die, your soul goes to an afterlife place". The fact that the afterlife location, for Tolkien elves, happens to be in the same physical world, isn't really that relevant.

Originally Posted by Celjabba
But they don't die fully, and in theory, it should mean unkillable. And if the 2 glorfindel are one, it stop being a special effect-in theory.
Not really. If I'm running a fantasy campaign, and one of the characters dies, but I decide that they were so cool that the gods decide to revive them, the character doesn't need Unkillable for that to happen - all it needs is GM fiat. The benefit of Unkillable is guaranteed, quick ressurection - neither of which Tolkien elves have. So, no Unkillable.

Originally Posted by Celjabba
They decided it was a magic ring, a ring of power, the one ring by a process of deduction and logical steps, not by any mage sight. To almost quote one of them, "okay, we have seen a ring . so what."
Note that Gandalf had previously mentioned that there were "many magic rings"; the elves probably just didn't care about magic rings in general, since half of them there could likely toss off a minor magic ring in their spare time. They wouldn't mention that they noticed its magic the same way they wouldn't mention the fact that it was gold - it wasn't really relevant.

Originally Posted by Celjabba
I seem to remenber a couple of other, in "lost tales".
Remember, The Book of Lost Tales represents a very early version of Tolkien's mythology, before he had evolved a lot of concepts. I wouldn't trust references in Lost Tales as "canonical" unless they were backed up by other, later references.

Originally Posted by Celjabba
This, however, i disagree. The gift of men is clearly said to be full death and short life. Pain and suffering, disease and aging are means and ways, not the gift or his effect. And i wouldn't call the gift an aberration.
An "aberration" in the sense that it was the difference from the norm, not in the sense of being an evil thing. Without the Gift of Iluvatar, men's bodies would have been like the elves, and not died from old age.

Originally Posted by Celjabba
Besides, after the prophecy know as the curse of mandos, elves suffered from pain, suffering and weariness of body and soul, without being in any way associated to man's gift, luthien and descendant excepted.
However, even elves who didn't fall under the Doom of Mandos suffered from those sorts of things. The Avari, for example, still "faded" and grew wearied from the world, even though most had probably never even heard of the Noldor. Again, Mandos was just telling the elves what was going to happen to them, not causing it to happen. He foretold, not changed.
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lotr, racial template

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