Quick Question: Move 9, Sprinting -- Add Speed to Range?

[Stripe]

Greetings!

Quick question: let's say you have a timber wolf 30 yards away with Move 9 coming right at you. It's sprinting (p. B354), so its Move is 10.

Rules-as-written, should the timber wolf's speed be added to its range? At first, I didn't think so, but then I started to wonder...

According to the Size and Speed/Range Table (p. B550): "But for fast targets – including anything that requires the High-Speed Movement rules (p. 394) – the GM may rule that speed is important enough to consider." While it says "including" it doesn't say it's limited to things using high-speed movement. It just says "for fast targets."

While sprinting doesn't use high-speed rules, high-speed rules say, "Once you switch to high-speed movement, you move as described under Sprinting (p. 354)."

Also, according to p. B373:

Originally Posted by B373

Ranged Attacks
on Human Targets
When using a ranged weapon
against a target moving at human
speeds – anything up to Move 10 – you
may simplify the calculation by using
just a range modifier and neglecting
speed (unless the target is flying,
sprinting, or something similar).
Assume that the target’s ability to take
a dodge defense adequately represents
the effects of movement.

So, that brings me to another clarification: does anyone targeting a person who is sprinting add speed to range? We never did before.

Just curious. I may very well be wrong, but it seems as though it's somewhat possible every target that is sprinting gets its speed added to its range, even if it's not going very fast... True? False?

Please site page numbers if you wish to reply! Thanks!

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Greetings!

Quick question: let's say you have a timber wolf 30 yards away with Move 9 coming right at you. It's sprinting (p. B354), so its Move is 10.

Rules-as-written, should the timber wolf's speed be added to its range? At first, I didn't think so, but then I started to wonder...

According to the Size and Speed/Range Table (p. B550): "But for fast targets – including anything that requires the High-Speed Movement rules (p. 394) – the GM may rule that speed is important enough to consider." While it says "including" it doesn't say it's limited to things using high-speed movement. It just says "for fast targets."

The important part is "the GM may rule that speed is important enough to consider". Alternatively, you could look at it this way: speed always should be part of the calculation, but under most circumstances it makes a small difference (that is, doesn't actually produce a modifier) and isn't worth calculating. The GM can decide when it is worth calculating, and the book lists a few things the GM may wish to consider in doing so.

Note that to impose a -1 modifier, speed of the target needs to be about half the attacker-to-target range per second.

[Stripe]

While that is something to consider, I don't think it's "the most important part." In every role playing game system that I've ever played for every rule, the GM's whim is always final, so it goes without saying.

In this case, for a PC with a mediocre ranged weapon skill, it could make a substantial difference whether speed is applied to range or not.

I'm seeking additional rules that I've overlooked or am unaware of, or a clarification of those I cited unless there really is no way under RAW to make a determination and it's simply left up to the GM entirely.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Greetings!

Quick question: let's say you have a timber wolf 30 yards away with Move 9 coming right at you. It's sprinting (p. B354), so its Move is 10.

Rules-as-written, should the timber wolf's speed be added to its range? At first, I didn't think so, but then I started to wonder...

According to the Size and Speed/Range Table (p. B550): "But for fast targets – including anything that requires the High-Speed Movement rules (p. 394) – the GM may rule that speed is important enough to consider." While it says "including" it doesn't say it's limited to things using high-speed movement. It just says "for fast targets."

While sprinting doesn't use high-speed rules, high-speed rules say, "Once you switch to high-speed movement, you move as described under Sprinting (p. 354)."

Also, according to p. B373:



So, that brings me to another clarification: does anyone targeting a person who is sprinting add speed to range? We never did before.

Just curious. I may very well be wrong, but it seems as though it's somewhat possible every target that is sprinting gets its speed added to its range, even if it's not going very fast... True? False?

Please site page numbers if you wish to reply! Thanks!

Since it's under Move 10, and coming straight at the character rather than moving laterally, I'd probably not bother myself, but sure, if the GM wanted to impose any additional penalty, they could. At Move 9, the wolf would have to be within 15 yards for this to actually increase the penalty by 1, though, so it's only going to matter for one or two turns anyway.

[Stripe]

Like I say, at 30 yards, it's currently sprinting and moving at Move 10. So, it's not under Move 10 for the purpose of this scenario.

With speed applied, the wolf is -8 to hit at 30 yards, -7 to hit at 20 yards, and -6 to hit at 10 yards. Without speed, it is at -7, -6, and -4 respectively.

That's notable when you're working with Bow-12.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Like I say, at 30 yards, it's currently sprinting and moving at Move 10. So, it's not under Move 10 for the purpose of this scenario.

Well, it's up to Move 10, which the rule sets as the outside of 'human' movement. You're still free to disregard if you feel it adds needless complication.

And honestly, you're even free to say it doesn't count as the full Move if it's directly toward or away from the archer, if you're the GM.

Originally Posted by Stripe

With speed applied, the wolf is -8 to hit at 30 yards, -7 to hit at 20 yards, and -6 to hit at 10 yards. Without speed, it is at -7, -6, and -4 respectively.

That's notable when you're working with Bow-12.

Yes, it's a further -1 to hit for two turns, then a further -2 to hit for the last turn before it barrels into you and enters close combat.

If you even apply the speed in this case.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Stripe

While that is something to consider, I don't think it's "the most important part." In every role playing game system that I've ever played for every rule, the GM's whim is always final, so it goes without saying.

In this specific case, it is the most important part, because the purpose of speed usually being excluded but being included when the GM feels it is significant enough to matter is that, if included, speed usually adds an extra addition operation but produces no change in the end result unless you are near a breakpoint to start with. This produces both extra work and some potentially undesirable behavior where low speed makes a difference near the boundaries of range bands that it wouldn't make at other ranges within the same range bands.

If you want a hard and fast rule to use, don't add speed to range unless speed (per second) is at least one-third of range.

I'm seeking additional rules that I've overlooked or am unaware of, or a clarification of those I cited unless there really is no way under RAW to make a determination and it's simply left up to the GM entirely.

You've already cited the rule, which makes it expressly a GM call.

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Well, it's up to Move 10, which the rule sets as the outside of 'human' movement.

Ak, you're right. It does plainly say that in the rules I posted. Move 10 is the cut-off.

Thanks, all.