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Old 10-17-2019, 10:39 AM   #1
Shadlith
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

So the Fickle limitation forces you to roll an unmodified Reaction Roll in order to activate your power. Simple enough.

The Requires Reaction Roll submodifier makes it worth less, by allowing the Reaction Roll to be modified normally. Again, simple enough.

However, it also allows you to make an Influence Roll instead... except Influence Rolls are opposed rolls against the Will of the target.

... So... if I attempt to convince my spirit buddy that she should totally fling a fireball at the jerk trying to stab me (AKA - I make an Influence Roll to attempt to activate my Innate Attack power, which was purchased with the Requires Reaction Rolls disadvantage), and I roll vs my Diplomacy... what's her Will that she rolls against to resist my attempt? Because Influence Rolls are opposed checks.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:41 AM   #2
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

That's a good question. On general principles (that is, I haven't checked GURPS Powers), I'd guess that you assume Will 10.
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Old 10-17-2019, 11:06 AM   #3
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

For an entity capable of granting supernatural powers? I would assume a Will 20, at the very least, with a much higher Will possible.
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Old 10-17-2019, 11:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
For an entity capable of granting supernatural powers? I would assume a Will 20, at the very least, with a much higher Will possible.
For Fickle, you get a Poor or worse reaction on a 9 or less, which is 37.5% of the time. That's worth -20%.

With Requires Reaction Roll, if you're going up against Will 20 with Diplomacy-12, you'll typically succeed by 2, so your adversary will beat you except on a 17 or 18, which always fails. That's equivalent to your getting an unfavorable reaction on a 16 or less. Effectively it's -7 to the reaction roll for Fickle. That's not legal under the rules for the Spirit modifier, but if it were, it would be an extra -35%, or a total -55%. Having it count only for -5% would be grossly unfair. Getting your Diplomacy high enough to compensate would have a huge point cost.

If you're going up against Will 10, you'll typically succeed by 2, so your adversary will beat you on an 8 or less. That amounts to +2 to the reaction roll, which would be an extra +10%, or net -10%. That's pretty close to the stated -5%; you can figure that the option of buying up your Influence skill is worth at least +5%.

So I'm going to say that assuming Will 10 is not glaringly unreasonable, but assuming Will 20 is hopelessly unbalanced.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
For an entity capable of granting supernatural powers? I would assume a Will 20, at the very least, with a much higher Will possible.
Are you assuming that the spirit likes you, and thus you get a huge bonus to Diplomacy? Because otherwise, Stoddard's answer is better in terms of 'how often the ability should work.'
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:42 PM   #6
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

It is not unbalanced because you can use reaction modifiers (or just take a reaction roll). It is quite easy for even a 250 CP character to gain a +10 reaction modifier, which increases effective Influence skill level by +10. They would only have to take Appearance (Attractive; Universal, +25%) [5], Charisma 5 [25], and Reputation+4 (Spirits; All of the time) [10]. Not only will it help them with their patrons, it will also apply to a lot of other reaction rolls.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:45 PM   #7
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
It is not unbalanced because you can use reaction modifiers (or just take a reaction roll). It is quite easy for even a 250 CP character to gain a +10 reaction modifier, which increases effective Influence skill level by +10. They would only have to take Appearance (Attractive; Universal, +25%) [5], Charisma 5 [25], and Reputation+4 (Spirits; All of the time) [10]. Not only will it help them with their patrons, it will also apply to a lot of other reaction rolls.
Unless that's not part of your character concept, which is quite likely. There are plenty of fictional examples of characters with a special connection to one specific spirit without any kind of broad competence with interpersonal interactions.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:48 PM   #8
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadlith View Post
... So... if I attempt to convince my spirit buddy that she should totally fling a fireball at the jerk trying to stab me (AKA - I make an Influence Roll to attempt to activate my Innate Attack power, which was purchased with the Requires Reaction Rolls disadvantage), and I roll vs my Diplomacy... what's her Will that she rolls against to resist my attempt? Because Influence Rolls are opposed checks.
In general it's equivalent to "requires skill roll", so I'd probably just make it an unopposed test.

Though to be honest, I'd just chuck the limitation out the window, give it a Fickleness number, and note that it is by special effect a reaction roll.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

At -5%, I'd just make it an unopposed roll – but I would require some time to actually try and influence the patron.
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Old 10-17-2019, 03:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: Requires Reaction Roll and Influence Rolls

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Though to be honest, I'd just chuck the limitation out the window, give it a Fickleness number, and note that it is by special effect a reaction roll.
I'm in complete agreement. The Requires Reaction Roll Limitation has always come across as a terrible idea to me.
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