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Old 06-18-2019, 10:20 AM   #41
Varyon
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Default Re: Afsaneh Rabiei and CMF Research

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
What do you think, what should be the true story of a fictionalized Afsaneh Rabiei in my campaign?
I found a more complete bio for her here. Looks like she was in Tehran until 1994 (working in industry after getting her Bachelor's), which was when she moved to Japan for her PhD. She was in Massachusetts from 1997 to 2003 (and was in Boston, where IIRC you had some rather spooky things occur in a previous campaign, in 2002), then went to the University of North Carolina.

With that in mind, her experiencing the supernatural in Tehran was certainly possible, but probably not terribly likely, as it was in the early days of the supernatural. Additionally, I'm not certain an Iranian Supernatural Secret Society would be entirely welcoming of a female member, and as an aspiring scientist she wouldn't want to get branded as crazy, so I'd imagine even if she did have a supernatural encounter, she kept it largely to herself. Also maybe, I dunno, moved halfway around the world to get away from it. While in Japan, the supernatural was more likely to have interrupted into her life, but as you note she would have been too much of an outsider while there to join a secret society. The earliest she would have joined such would have been in Massachusetts. Her research seems to have an altruistic bent to it - medical implants, materials to protect against natural and man-made disasters, etc - so I feel it would be appropriate for her to be part of a group that she at least thinks has good intentions.

There's also this little paragraph from her MAE (Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, her department at NCSU) Bio:
Quote:
Dr. Rabiei is a unique faculty advisor. Her students often work with professionals outside of MAE, on and off campus and quite often with international groups. Her students tend to be motivated, have good reading and writing skills, and enjoy scientific exploration. Much of her work leads to new inventions. She is fond of pointing out that her students work in an environment of creation.

Outside of work, Dr. Rabiei enjoys her time with family and students.
This makes me feel she would be appropriate as either the leader of a small independent group (which may learn of and ally with Kessler, as he similarly appears to have altruistic goals) or, perhaps more likely, is a high-ranking member of (and recruiter for) an international group of some sort. Ideally one based (or with tendrils in) Massachusetts, as I feel that would be the most likely area where she would have been initially recruited.

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Originally Posted by fula farbrorn View Post
How would we Stat up a NIJ III/IV vest ? they do exist and are becoming more and more prolific
GURPS gives NIJ IV armor sufficient protection to also count as NIJ III. In theory, you could distinguish NIJ IV armor from NIJ III/IV armor by giving it a different DR against certain attacks, but doing this just for NIJ IV armor would be odd, meaning you may need to rewrite how a good deal of GURPS armor works.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:23 AM   #42
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Default Re: NIJ Levels in DR Ratings

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Originally Posted by fula farbrorn View Post
How would we Stat up a NIJ III/IV vest ? they do exist and are becoming more and more prolific

one possible solution would be to adjust it into something like this

Level II: DR 10
Level IIIA: DR 12
Level III: DR 25
Level IV: ?? ??
Level III/IV: DR 36

Not sure what rules or DR it would benefit from though

https://www.vestguard.co.uk/hard-arm...-iiiiv-34.html
I'd stat all stand-alone NIJ Level IV armor as having DR 36+, but note that armor which might not pass Level III testing might have reduced DR against a specific threat, most likely very high velocity projectiles, or, alternatively, might fail Level III testing because of problems with repeated hits.

Note that these are edge cases and specifically do not apply to the most common ceramic composite plates from reputable manufacturers, even if they haven't specifically been submitted for Level III testing.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:51 AM   #43
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Default Re: Afsaneh Rabiei and CMF Research

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I found a more complete bio for her here. Looks like she was in Tehran until 1994 (working in industry after getting her Bachelor's), which was when she moved to Japan for her PhD. She was in Massachusetts from 1997 to 2003 (and was in Boston, where IIRC you had some rather spooky things occur in a previous campaign, in 2002), then went to the University of North Carolina.

With that in mind, her experiencing the supernatural in Tehran was certainly possible, but probably not terribly likely, as it was in the early days of the supernatural. Additionally, I'm not certain an Iranian Supernatural Secret Society would be entirely welcoming of a female member, and as an aspiring scientist she wouldn't want to get branded as crazy, so I'd imagine even if she did have a supernatural encounter, she kept it largely to herself. Also maybe, I dunno, moved halfway around the world to get away from it. While in Japan, the supernatural was more likely to have interrupted into her life, but as you note she would have been too much of an outsider while there to join a secret society. The earliest she would have joined such would have been in Massachusetts. Her research seems to have an altruistic bent to it - medical implants, materials to protect against natural and man-made disasters, etc - so I feel it would be appropriate for her to be part of a group that she at least thinks has good intentions.

There's also this little paragraph from her MAE (Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, her department at NCSU) Bio: This makes me feel she would be appropriate as either the leader of a small independent group (which may learn of and ally with Kessler, as he similarly appears to have altruistic goals) or, perhaps more likely, is a high-ranking member of (and recruiter for) an international group of some sort. Ideally one based (or with tendrils in) Massachusetts, as I feel that would be the most likely area where she would have been initially recruited.
Yes, that's nice.

The surviving PCs from the campaign there that ran from 2009-2011 ended up as leaders in the supernatural scene in New England. The PC who was a former-MP, former cop and current PI got involved in occult cases and because he was altruistic, Charitable and resourceful, word got around among people involved with the supernatural in Boston, then later Massachussetts and later still, all New England, that if you had a problem that the police couldn't help you with, you could take it to Mike O'Connor.

There eventually developed a sort of informal network of occultists, conspiracy theorists, paranormal reserchers and believers in general that both served to keep O'Connor informed and provided a constant stream of requests for help from him.* As O'Connor was a Knight of Columbus, with a lot of cop, fitefighter and veteran friends, and the other PCs were well-connected and diplomatically adept, Massachussetts and New England in general has a sort of codified peace between the unaware human society and the various occult factions. This peace is enforced through an allegiance brokered by the PCs, between the local Catholic dioesces, a local criminal syndicate led by vampires and the various smaller groups.

Breaking the simple rules that allow co-existence results in 'Sheriff' Mike O'Connor rounding up a posse of those who support the accords and dealing with the offender. So far, that has mostly consisted of rounding up Iraq and Afghan vets among the Knights of Columbus and breaking rogue occultist heads or burning out a nest of 'unauthorized' monsters.

As any formal organization post-dates the end of actual play, we haven't named the accords or the informal organization of human occultists, but I know I want the name to make use of the term 'Mystic', i.e. the river and the name of the campaign 'Boston Mystic'.

Ms. Rabiei's small group could fit under the 'Mystic Society' umbrella.

*Yes, very much like the Dresden Files ParaNet.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:05 PM   #44
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

MIJ IV level armour is supposed to stop level NIJ III threats as well. Those linked plates, claiming level III/IV protection seem to be rated for a single hit from a LIV threat and multiple from a LIII threat. I'd give them DR25 plus another DR10 that's semi-ablative. If you're already rating armour plates as semi-ablative, make the extra DR ablative. You could also put it behind the DR25 (so that minor threats don't scrape it off immediately).
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:40 PM   #45
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
MIJ IV level armour is supposed to stop level NIJ III threats as well.
Why?

That's not how the tests work. While it is true that NIJ Level IV rated armor might stop Level III threats, unless it is actually submitted for testing in that category, no one is guaranteeing it.

In particular, armor can pass NIJ Standard-0101.06 testing for Level IV without having any ability to absorb multiple hits. Just stopping a single M2 .30-06 AP round at the specified velocity will do. By contrast, testing for Level III by the same standard requires stopping multiple hits from M80 7.62x51mm rounds.

While most popular Level IV armor plates are actually tested for more than one M2 hit, because the manufacturers are required to make available information on the exact testing the underwent, it is theoretically quite possible to make ceramic plates that pass Level IV testing, but could not pass Level III.

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Those linked plates, claiming level III/IV protection seem to be rated for a single hit from a LIV threat and multiple from a LIII threat. I'd give them DR25 plus another DR10 that's semi-ablative. If you're already rating armour plates as semi-ablative, make the extra DR ablative. You could also put it behind the DR25 (so that minor threats don't scrape it off immediately).
Aside from steel plates, all rigid modern body armor is semi-ablative at best.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:48 PM   #46
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Aside from steel plates, all rigid modern body armor is semi-ablative at best.
I'm aware of that, but it's not the default rule for body armour in GURPS.

As for protection, my understanding is that armour with a certain NIJ rating is supposed to also protect against those threats that lower ratings protect against as well. The big problem with those ratings (and similar ones) is that they are only rated and tested against very specific bullets, and apparently similar bullets can perform much better or worse, and even fairly small increases in velocity and energy can result in penetrations.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:48 PM   #47
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Aside from steel plates, all rigid modern body armor is semi-ablative at best.
Steel plates get damaged as well, they're on the low side for the amount of armor weakened by a hit but not sure if they're even better than more durable composites.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:28 PM   #48
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Steel plates get damaged as well, they're on the low side for the amount of armor weakened by a hit but not sure if they're even better than more durable composites.
Steel armor gets damaged at the point of impact and a very small area around it. A ceramic composite plate that has taken any hit at all might be fine elsewhere, but there might also be microscopic flaws invisible to the naked eye that cause it to crack at the next hit. Which is why ceramic plates that have stopped a bullet are never rated for service again.

This is not to say that modern composites are not awesomely advanced and much lighter for their protective value than any alternatives. Just, you know, they are not completely flawless and there is a reason why the plates are designed as replacable inserts.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:35 PM   #49
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
As for protection, my understanding is that armour with a certain NIJ rating is supposed to also protect against those threats that lower ratings protect against as well. The big problem with those ratings (and similar ones) is that they are only rated and tested against very specific bullets, and apparently similar bullets can perform much better or worse, and even fairly small increases in velocity and energy can result in penetrations.
I assure you that armor tested against NIJ Level IV standards is not guaranteed to pass Level III testing. If they were, manufacturers would not feel the need to specifically send it for testing for Level III standards as well, when they want to advertise that.

However, as a practical matter, Level IV body armor should provide protection against at least 1 hit from any threat mentioned in IIA, II, IIIA and III standards. However, there is no guarantee that it will provide any protection against repeated impacts.

To pass actual Level III testing, however, armor must stop multiple M80 7.62x51mm rounds. In GURPS terms, that's less damage than Level IV can stop, but note that Ablative DR can pass NIJ Level IV testing (but not Level III, which allows Semi-Ablative, but not full Ablative).
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:45 PM   #50
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Default Re: Modern Body Armor

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Steel armor gets damaged at the point of impact and a very small area around it. A ceramic composite plate...
I wasn't talking about ceramic plates, those are inherently brittle (though there's some stuff that can be done with crack propagation). However, plastic level III plate seems pretty comparable to metal.
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